“For the longest time, I treated feelings like an evolutionary waste product—like an appendix. Rationality and analytics are what I’m built for, and emotions just got in the way.”— Bo Shao
Bo Shao is a co-founder and the chairman of Evolve, a philanthropic investment firm composed of a foundation, Evolve Foundation, and an impact investment firm, Evolve Ventures. With an initial capital of $100 million from the Shao family, Evolve aims to support organizations that relieve inner suffering and facilitate inner transformation. He is also the co-founder of Parent Lab, an app that helps parents meet common parenting challenges (a new version launches on April 10th).
Prior to Evolve, Bo was a founding partner of Matrix China, a leading technology venture capital firm in China, which manages more than $7 billion and has funded more than 500 companies, 50+ of which have become unicorns. He is also a serial entrepreneur who has co-founded five companies that have either gone public or become leaders in their respective industries.
Bo was born in China and was a winner of more than a dozen national mathematics competitions during high school. When he was 17, he left China for Harvard College on a full scholarship—one of the first such scholarships Harvard granted to a person from mainland China. After receiving his A.B. summa cum laude in physics and electrical engineering, he worked for Boston Consulting Group and Goldman Sachs and received his MBA from Harvard Business School.
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The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
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Want to hear another episode with someone committed to inner work? Listen to my conversation with Jim Dethmer, in which we discuss coping with stressful and disturbing thoughts, avoiding drama-based conflict in close relationships, becoming emotionally literate, accepting radical responsibility, co-commitment over codependence, and much more.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
- Ventures & Foundation | Evolve
- The Leading Source for Evidence-Based Parenting Education | Parent Lab
- Shanghai, China | Britannica
- Bicycle Standard Face Playing Cards | Amazon
- Tesla Map vs. Waze/Google Maps | r/teslamotors
- Harvard University
- All or Nothing: Inside China’s “Cram Schools” | Reader’s Digest
- New Concept English 1 | Amazon
- Vulcan | Memory Alpha
- What Killed Pay Phones and Phone Booths? | The Atlantic
- Exposé Magazine | Harvard Writing Project
- Rick Doblin: ‘People Should Have the Fundamental Right to Change Their Consciousness’ | Reason
- What Was China’s Cultural Revolution? | ThoughtCo.
- Newly Released Documents Detail Traumas of China’s Cultural Revolution | Fresh Air
- Who Were China’s Red Guards? | ThoughtCo.
- Chinese Red Guards Apologize, Reopening a Dark Chapter | All Things Considered
- Can Trauma Be Inherited Between Generations? | The Atlantic
- To Live | Prime Video
- Global Management Consulting | BCG
- EachNet.com | Stanford Graduate School of Business
- What Was That Dial-Up Internet Sound? | Popular Mechanics
- Harvard President: Zuckerberg Dropped Out, but His Staff Didn’t | CNBC
- Studying Chinese? Read This before You Choose Your Name | The Guardian
- Capital University of Economics and Business
- 1996 in China | Wikipedia
- Graduate Record Examinations (GRE) | Wikipedia
- Meditation, Mindset, and Mastery | The Tim Ferriss Show #201
- Why Being First Often Doesn’t Work Out: Friendster, Mt. Gox, EachNet | Tech In Asia
- A Case Study on International Expansion: How eBay Failed in China by Alex Lee | Medium
- The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson | Amazon
- Matrix Partners China
- Sina Weibo | Wikipedia
- The Neuroscience of 20-Somethings | Scientific American Blog Network
- Frankenstein by Mary Shelley | Amazon
- The Work of Byron Katie
- Hand in Hand Parenting
- The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success by Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, and Kaley Klemp | Amazon
- Jim Dethmer — How to Shift from Victim Consciousness, Reduce Drama, Practice Candor, Be Fully Alive, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #434
- Diana Chapman — How to Get Unstuck, Do “The Work,” Take Radical Responsibility, and Reduce Drama in Your Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #536
- Who First Said ‘Long Time, No See’ and in Which Language? | Code Switch
- Bo shares what it was like to grow up poor in Shanghai, how his uncanny math acumen was sharpened with poker cards and rewarded with ketchup and hugs, and the lifelong lessons he absorbed from his parents. [07:07]
- How did Bo wind up getting a full scholarship to Harvard? [16:30]
- What did Bo do to learn and refine his English language skills, and why does he consider the pattern of behavior that compels him to excel a “burden?” [18:26]
- How much of a culture shock did Bo experience when he moved to the United States in 1991? What were the most noticeable differences between China and the US? [26:47]
- Why is Bo committed to bringing MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to China? What unique traumas have recent generations of Chinese experienced en masse that might be greatly alleviated by such treatments? [34:15]
- Bo walks us through what it took to build his first startup during the age of dial-up modems after returning to China from a lucrative job in the US, and how his parents reacted. [43:29]
- As someone so hardwired toward rationality, how did Bo weigh the pros and cons of beginning his own entrepreneurial venture in China instead of pursuing stable, high-paying employment for someone else in the US? Did he have a contingency plan in case things didn’t work out? [50:46]
- Western names don’t always translate easily into Chinese. Take mine, for example. [55:19]
- The ups and downs of startup life and the finite resources that even a math wizard can easily lose track of. [1:00:14]
- How did Bo roll with cash flow problems and a major source of funding potentially drying up during a time of dire market fluctuations? [1:03:31]
- It turns out Harvard is a great place to increase one’s vocabulary. [1:06:55]
- How Bo’s superpower-charging study regimen resembles meditation. [1:09:11]
- Whatever happened to Bo’s first startup? [1:11:34]
- How did meeting the woman who would become Bo’s wife enhance his emotional development? [1:13:20]
- How old was Bo when he “retired” after selling EachNet, what motivated him to rejoin the entrepreneurial world, and what have been some of his most noteworthy accomplishments since? [1:16:09]
- How did personal introspection become a priority for Bo after years of resistance to the idea, and how has his life improved — as a friend, husband, and father — as a result? [1:17:50]
- What tools, perspectives, realizations, and resources have helped Bo make progress on his journey of self-discovery? [1:26:38]
- What does Bo believe is missing right now from the discussion around psychedelics and related therapies? [1:35:55]
- Projects with which Evolve is involved, Bo’s thoughts on the importance of inner work (particularly for people who are, as he was, overly focused on the rational), and other parting thoughts. [1:40:21]
MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW
“Certain ways of parenting work for certain kids and certain situations, and there’s no one-size-fits-all. So it’s really important to collect all the tools out there and develop a framework, a knowledge graph, so that the right tools and modalities and tricks can be recommended to the right children, the right parents, the right situation.”
— Bo Shao
“Children are so different from us. We assume that they should have executive control of their body or of their mind or their actions. But the reality is, for example, for a boy, their prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully develop until they’re in their 20s. So when they are 12, expecting them to behave in a disciplined way is simply not right, so understanding what’s going on inside of them is hugely, hugely important.”
— Bo Shao
“When a country goes through this kind of an internal convulsion where people are betraying each other left and right every single day, it’s hard to imagine the impact on the psyche of a generation of people.”
— Bo Shao
“For the longest time, I treated feelings like an evolutionary waste product—like an appendix. Rationality and analytics are what I’m built for, and emotions just got in the way.”
— Bo Shao
“Being a parent is probably the most important job in one’s life. We go to school for teaching math, we get driving lessons to get a driver’s license so we can drive, but to be a parent, there’s practically no preparation.”
— Bo Shao
- Nicholas Kristof
- Mao Zedong
- Zhang Yimou
- Gong Li
- John Wong
- Mark Zuckerberg
- Jack Ma
- Henry Jekyll
- Edward Hyde
- Frankenstein’s Monster
- Byron Katie
- Patty Wipfler
- Jim Dethmer
- Diana Chapman
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7 Replies to “Bo Shao — His Path from Food Rations to Managing Billions, the Blessings and Burdens of Chasing Perfection, Building the eBay of China in 1999, Pillars of Parenting, and Pursuing the Unpopular (#584)”
It was meaningful, as you say, Tim.
Is there a way to suggest a guest for the show?
I’m a Nigerian woman from the Yoruba tribe. It is a norm in my culture to beat children when they do wrong/disobey, especially after warning them repeatedly about it. In fact, you are negatively criticized and consider a bad parent if you don’t.
I have read about the aftermath of this kind of parenting style, but still do it once in a while. I was brought up that way, so were my parents, and so on.
Listening to Bo Shao talked about his own experience on this shook me to the core of my being. I never thought in my wildest dream I could be abusing my children or that my children will see this way of raising them as cruel, and not act of love! This really saddens me. Culture does not make people, people make culture. I must let go of this part of our culture.
Keep up the good work, Tim!
Really reat art, thanks
This one hit home for me throught the entire podcast. Always interesting to hear others stories when they are able to share ipenly and honestly. Despite our differnet backgrounds we are all so much more similar and connected then most of us understand. I very much grew up in a world where what I did and accomplished was the topic of discussion rather than how I was feeling. It took me until my late thirties and 3 kids to figure this out. As always thank you Tim and Bo for the candid conversation.
Tim, thank you so much for this interview, especially as things got personal and speaking on parenting and emotions (1:22:00). I’ve been a long time listener and many of your interviews have touch me in different ways but never have they touched me to the point of feeling a need to thank you directly. And thank you to Bo for sharing so openly. Listening to this part of the interview she’s light on things I’ve been struggling with for a long time and working to improve. Thank you.
This was one of my most favourite interviews ever. Bo Shao seems to be an incredibly humble individual that has gone through many transformations to be who he is today. Keen to see what he does in the parenting/education space as well as psychedelics. Also, Tim your Chinese rocks!