Exploring Smart Drugs, Fasting, and Fat Loss — Dr. Rhonda Patrick (#237)

“Avoiding all stress isn’t the answer to fighting aging; it’s about building resilience to environmental stress.” 

– Rhonda Patrick

Rhonda Patrick, PhD, (@foundmyfitness) is an American biochemist and scientist. She first appeared on this podcast back in episode twelve, and whether you want to extend life, inexpensively buy a stem cell “insurance policy,” or guard against cancer, Rhonda has valuable insights and recommendations.

In this episode, Rhonda tackles some of your most requested topics, including:

  • Best practices for fasting (and who struggles most with time-restricted feedings)
  • What blood tests are most important to analyze for overall health
  • The “minimum effective dose” for the benefits of sauna
  • Heat vs. cold exposure, and how they should be used effectively
  • Most effective smart drugs
  • The latest fat loss research
  • And much, much more

Rhonda is known for her studies of the mechanistic link between vitamin D and serotonin production, research that may have important implications for the understanding of autism and other disorders, and for her popular podcast, Found My Fitness.

Dr. Patrick also conducts clinical trials, performed aging research at Salk Institute for Biological Studies, and did graduate research at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital, where she focused on cancer, mitochondrial metabolism, and apoptosis.


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#237: Exploring Smart Drugs, Fasting, and Fat Loss -- Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Want even more from Rhonda Patrick? Listen to her first appearance on the podcast. In this episode, we discuss life extension, optimal performance, and much more (stream below or right-click here to download):

Ep. 12: Dr. Rhonda Patrick on Life Extension, Performance, and More

This podcast is sponsored by Alibaba and Gateway17. If you’re an entrepreneur or business owner in the US, the stars don’t always align — but this might get close. Alibaba (if you’re not familiar with it, imagine Amazon and Google having a baby in China) is hosting Gateway17, a conference designed to help US businesses tap into the five hundred million consumers of China’s growing middle class.

Gateway17 takes place June 20-21 in Detroit, Michigan, and it puts you in direct contact with experts who want to help you grow your business into the booming Chinese marketplace. Speakers include Alibaba founder Jack Ma (in his only speaking engagement of the year), UPS CEO David Abney, and master interviewer Charlie Rose. As a Tim Ferriss Show listener, Alibaba is offering you a ticket for $125 (they’re usually $500) if you sign up at gateway17.com by May 25 and use the code Tim at checkout.

This podcast is also brought to you by WordPress, my go-to platform for 24/7-supported, zero downtime blogging, writing online, creating websites, and basically everything online. I love it to bits, and the lead developer, Matt Mullenweg, has appeared on this podcast many times.

Whether for personal use or business, you’re in good company with WordPress being used by The New Yorker, Jay Z, FiveThirtyEight, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, and Time, just to name a few. A source at Google told me that WordPress offers “the best out-of-the-box SEO imaginable,” which is probably why it runs nearly 30 percent of the Internet. Go to WordPress.com/Tim to get 15% off your website today!

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Selected Links from the Episode

  • Connect with Rhonda Patrick:

Website | Podcast |Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Show Notes

  • What new areas, experiments, discoveries, or hypotheses is Rhonda most excited about these days? [08:02]
  • Your mom was right about broccoli and brussels sprouts. [10:12]
  • How stressing out our cells may help slow the aging process. [10:52]
  • Rhonda’s best practices for time-restricted eating — and who might not benefit from this practice. [13:00]
  • How do the effects of fasting differ from those of a low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diet, and what key metrics would indicate benefit (or lack thereof)? [16:16]
  • Rhonda’s thoughts on minimum effective dose for sauna benefits in session time, temperature, and frequency — and what those benefits might be. [23:33]
  • Is there any benefit to combining heat stress and cold stress in rapid succession — or do they cancel each other out? [45:30]
  • Thoughts on how regular hyperthermic conditioning and hypothermic stress relate to muscle hypertrophy in strength training. [51:16]
  • Why does Rhonda prefer the sauna after, rather than before, a workout? [55:22]
  • How does Rhonda feel about nootropic cognitive-enhancing supplements? Does she take any herself? [1:01:38]
  • Rhonda elaborates on the importance of vitamin D and omega 3. [1:08:51]
  • Is sulforaphane a nootropic? [1:11:12]
  • On cold-press juicing broccoli sprouts for sulforaphane and why Rhonda prefers blending. [1:17:50]
  • What is the most effective non-pharmaceutical pain reliever for arthritis sport injury sufferers? [1:18:34]
  • Because the FDA doesn’t require dietary supplements to be tested before going to market, how can we find trustworthy supplement brands? [1:26:35]
  • What are Rhonda’s core supplements and foods for health and brain function? [1:29:00]
  • What does Rhonda’s exercise routine look like? [1:53:17]
  • What is the 80/20 of lifestyle changes — that is, what twenty percent of lifestyle inputs lead to eighty percent of positive effects? [1:57:16]
  • Has Rhonda considered taking meat completely out of her diet?[2:11:21]
  • Of paleo, ketogenic, and vegetarian diets, which seems best poised to combat inflammation, and what are the general pros and cons of each? [2:17:12]
  • Do probiotics need to be taken forever, or do the introduced strains of bacteria gain a foothold at some point? [2:28:25]
  • Are artificial sweeteners bad for gut (or overall) health? Should they be avoided altogether? [2:34:15]
  • Is metformin really damaging to mitochondria, or is it more of a hormetic stressor? [2:36:28]
  • For superior health, does Rhonda recommend staying away from all alcohol, or are a couple glasses of red wine on the weekend okay? [2:39:24]

People Mentioned

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 900 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.

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149 Replies to “Exploring Smart Drugs, Fasting, and Fat Loss — Dr. Rhonda Patrick (#237)”

  1. This is like one of the learning programs in the Matrix: 2.75 hours for a masterclass in more than you could imagine. Had Rhonda stopped to breathe it would have been a good 9 hours long.

  2. Tim, please interview your guests. This sounds like recital of a prepared essay. Where is the human interaction? Or, did I not wait long enough before tuning out?

    1. He did interview Rhonda in a previous podcast (episode 12). As he’s done with others, he allows listeners to submit questions for a follow-up solocast, such as this one.

    2. Shane, he always interviews guests before he has them do solo podcasts. Do your homework before you make negative comments.

      1. I’m glad he asked this. A friend recommended this podcast to me, and I wondered the same thing. I like a couple of Tim’s books so it’s great to find out he does interview his guests.

      2. Was that negative or just fact? I find the dialogues so much more listenable than a pacy monologue utterly jammed with so much useful stuff I make a note to myself to transcribe it all, but never do, of course. I gather that by the word “before” you mean “on a prior boadcast ocassion” and not off-air to check their literacy. However, allow me to add that I did realise that this is Tim’s format and the the lovely scientist was doing her damndest to deliver top quality content. That was do discomfitingly obvious that I posted my remark. I am not a habitual commentator. I was saying it would have worked, for me, better if Tim had participated personally and moderated the pace of delivery. I did go back a listen to the whole thing. The content was mind blowing.

    1. This one definitely needs a full transcription…and then a full conversion to a book. Very intense, and will be a re-listen as I drive home from Chicago tomorrow!!

      1. Yep couldn’t listen to this one but want the info. Transcript needed. Thx.

      2. A transcription would be huge… it was almost too dense for a listening podcast. Loved the episode regardless.

      3. I agree on the transcription as well. As a lay person, there was much I could not follow in this podcast. While she is very well spoken, and obviously very intelligent, there was just too much to wrap my head around here. A Cliff’s Notes text version would do wonders!

      4. If Tim is OK with it – I think I will get this transcribed and if it is a $1 minute then I and can crowd fund here.

  3. Hi Tim,

    First off, thank you for all of your amazing work you have given to us. It has life changing for me.

    Secondly, I want to hear about your experience with prolonged fasting. Specifically, has it helped you recover from any of your chronic injuries? Can it help you regenerate connective tissue in your joints?

    Thanks again,


  4. Tim, I can’t wait to listen. I had an appointment with a dietician today and she poopooed all over the keto diet. Her ears perked up when I asked her about mushrooms being used for brain health and she started googling it as I told her about chaga and lions mane. Anyway, I love your stuff, your benevolent army is quiet and growing 😉

  5. In terms of most effective smart drugs, it is worth mentioning microdosing LSD and/or psilocybin mushrooms. Out of the many dozens of smart drugs available to us, microdoses of psychedelics are a leading candidate in efficacy and utility.


    What are your thoughts on microdosing, specifically with mushrooms? As you mentioned in the podcast, humans co-evolved with nutrition, not ‘smart drugs’, meaning nutrition is a better bet long term for improving mental efficacy.

    However, it is likely humans have eaten mushrooms – and even psilocybin-

    containing mushrooms – for thousands, if not tens-of-thousands, of years.


    If possible, I’d like to talk further with you about the work I’m doing. I’m formally working with Jim Fadiman on various microdosing related projects, acting as a public voice for education on microdosing psychedelic substances. I’ve done seminars in a dozen cities, speaking to 300-400 people at times. I always mention your work, how it influenced my ability to create independence (and thus, do public psychedelic advocacy), and can’t thank you enough for the work you’re currently doing in spreading awareness about these medicines.

  6. She was very smart & knowledgeable but I could not keep up with her. She spoke so fast — nearly robot-like. I kept wishing that Tim could be there, asking questions. It would have slowed the interview down a bit and made it much more interesting. Great information but you would have to listen to it 10 times to get it all.

    1. I know what you mean, but thankfully there are detailed show notes with all the important information mentioned on the podcast.

      1. Wher are the actual show notes to refer to? Feel like I’m on a treasure hunt. Would like the info simplified into what I can buy, eat, and do.

    2. I hear the podcast with the podcast app by apple. This app has an option to increase or decrease speed. Maybe putting it to 0.5x can help if you feel this is going too fast. Changing the player speed is a cool way to increase efficiency.

  7. Great podcast!

    Thank you Tim and Rhonda! This one is going to my nutrition/health/longevity/peak performance learning library – I don’t there is a better, more comprehensive, up to date resource for the subjects discussed (for non scientists)!

    I have a question for Rhonda:

    I know that water fast provides the best results, when it comes to cell autophagy and apoptosis, and probably the only protocol to induce mitophagy, but I don’t feel like doing prolonged complete water fast often (because of training and work, studying), so I do 10-14 day protocol that includes:

    16-hour period with just water

    2-3 cups of coffee (80-120 mg of caffeine) + brain octane, some butter and cacao butter + vitamins and electrolytes

    0 carbs

    500-600 cal of fat

    What would you call this? Fasting mimicking diet?

    What results will that give on a cellular level you would imagine?

    Thank you and would love more of Tim + Rhonda episodes!!!

    Maybe even a few people? Maybe Dominic D’Agostino, Peter Attia and other experts on fasting and ketosis, longevity, metabolism could gather (over skype or in person) to discuss different subjects and share their research – that would be really great! Some interesting new ideas for research might come out of that!

      1. Thank you! I checked out some of his stuff but might dig deeper now 🙂

  8. Hi Tim, thank you for these wonderful podcasts. This one by #237 by Rhonda Patrick was particularly impressive with so much information. I would really like to get a transcript of this talk Q&A. Please let me know if it is possible. Keep up the good work!

    Many thanks,


      1. I tried that, but it just made her sound drunk in a distracting sort of way. Having the same problem with several episodes of her own podcast. Some of us can’t easily parse such highly compressed speech without resorting to noise canceling headphones in a dark room. It almost turns into a safety issue when listening in the car. Slow down the talking speed! Please!

  9. Dang. Information overload! This was awesome. Thank you Rhonda! I had to listen to it at 90% speed to try and keep up, and even then, had to go back several times. I plan on listening again to try and soak more up. I am sure I will come back to this more than once.

    Tim, I see someone mentioned wanting the interview. I agree that this adds a nice human touch, but if you just want pure content, this is the way to go. It allows them to have all their ducks in a row and give it more structure.

  10. Couldn’t agree more with the other comments – needed Tim there. The podcast was WAY too rehearsed, very robot-like, painful to listen to even though there was great content. However, I do feel it was too dense of content. Overall, the topics are of great interest to me but her delivery makes the podcast basically unlistenable.

  11. The description of the content sounds amazing however the actual podcast is tough, I’d say painful, to listen to. I made it through 40 mins and had to turn it off. Sounded like a lecture with barely a breath.

    Bring back, Tim! 🙂

  12. Great to see Rhonda back, I love her content. Her own podcast (https://www.youtube.com/user/FoundMyFitness) is definitely worth checking out for the interviews and single-topic episodes. Interested to hear about coffee breaking the fast (she called it xenobiotics, right?). I may try shift my schedule now to eat earlier in the day too.

    I just finished my first (5-day) fast. Having done IF and been in ketosis for over a year, I expected it to be a little easier. Less hungry than I expected, but my energy levels were very very low. I used Tim/Dom’s protocol from TOT, but added some salt (~7g) as I was getting quite dizzy and faint. I could hardly lift a weight-plate let alone workout, as Tim and Dom had. Not sure if it’s an adaption thing, or if I was doing something wrong.

  13. I hate to be critical but I find the episode to be unlistenable which is a shame because I’m really interested in the content. I suspect the answers were written out beforehand and she’s just reading the answers. It’s really hard to stay engaged.

    After sampling her Ep12 podcast, it’s clear that that is not her normal manner of speaking. In fact, she has a great speaking voice. But it’s never enjoyable listening to someone reading from a script, especially when one is talking about highly technical details.

      1. Dont agree at all. This podcast actually was jammed full of actionable information and spared of off topic banter. Kudos tim an Rhonda!

      2. This podcast was absolutely amazing, balls to the wall firehose of actionable and vetted information by Dr Patrick. Thank you, in my opinion probably the best dose of value ever given on your podcast Tim.

  14. This podcast from Dr Rhonda Patrick is packed with valuable information, but it is going so fast I could not keep up, my recommendation would be so that the majority of people can get the full benefit of this life changing information, please create a transcript.

  15. Rhonda, you’re awesome! Huge amount of fascinating, life-changing, life-saving info: Tim, a transcript is warranted. Any suggestions on how to get it?

  16. Appreciated Dr. Rhonda’s complete, concise, sometimes mind-blowing responses to the great questions asked by listeners. Especially of value to me was her response about how she personally integrates the vast research amassed and her rationale. Thanks Tim, for another great podcast!

  17. Just read 5 Bullet Friday. I’m curious about the comment that you do not need deodorant because of a well regulated diet. I’ve not listened to this (the newest) podcast yet but I have been listening to your podcast for years now. I must have missed that in previous health-focused podcasts. Can expound on an upcoming pod or direct me to the podcast that discusses the relationship between diet and body odor. Thank you!

  18. That was an Amaaaazinggggg podcast …. LOADED with great info!

    Please Please how can we get the transcript of the show … ???

    Time …. a million THANK YOU!

    Rhonda … you are Thee Best!

  19. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is incredible. She speaks fast but there is so much to say on that subject, fascinating really. She explain things so well. Even if you have no idea what an mTOR protein is you’ll get it. I always find it strange that most people are extremely interested in technology but have so very little interest about their own body. I could just listen to it over and over. If you can’t follow her do your homework. Expanding your understanding of anything take efforts and it is so easy to fall in the ego trap of ‘I can’t keep up this is too much for me’. We have ONE body for this lifetime. Some like to rely on a mechanic to fix their car when it’s broken – I’d rather learn how it works and give it proper care and be proactive than being passive and react to issues as they occur. Sustainable health is when you take full responsibility of yourself and spend time understanding how your body works. Intellectual laziness is easy. Researching is hard. No pain no gain. Thank you for this. I thought I was knowledgable but it turns out I have a lot of work to do. Darn it. lol. Humbling.

  20. Complete prerecorded evidenceless monologue. Unfortunately because this not an interview it comes across as one hour opinion piece and makes it impossible to use any advice given reliably.

    1. “Evidenceless”? Are you kidding? Now one backs their data with more evidence. Tell me one blog that is NOT an opinion piece. Rhonda packs a punch, some can’t take it. If you want soft ball there are plenty of slow pitch blogs out there. Try those.

  21. And I thought my english was good… The cadence of her word output combined with the vocabulary she used made me pause 5 times during the podcast and just sit and stare onto a white wall for a few minutes.

    Amazing content. Your work, both Tim and Rhonda, is making people’s lives better and, in this case, LONGER as well… Thank you! Cheers from the Czech republic.

  22. When this was recorded, I suspect Rhonda didn’t have access to this newly published study on stroke/dementia risks for both sugar and artificial/diet drinks. One more reason to keep to tea, coffee & water as staple beverages

    Sugar- and Artificially Sweetened Beverages and the Risks of Incident

    Stroke and Dementia:

    A Prospective Cohort Study


    April 20, 2017; Vol. 48: pp. 1139-1146 [epub]

    And an editorial to accompany it:

    Sugar-Sweetened and Artificially Sweetened Beverages in Relation to

    Stroke and Dementia:

    Are Soft Drinks Hard on the Brain?



    April 20, 2017; Vol. 48; pp. 1129-1131 [epub]

  23. Did anyone catch the name of the brand of Lion’s Mane Dr. Rhonda Patrick uses? I couldn’t catch it.

      1. Dear Dr Patrick. This was a very helpful show. I had the impression that you were reading the Q&A. If so, it would very-very helpful if you could please post the transcript here. The show was so informative and loaded but… it was very fast. If you do have the transcript, please, kindly post it

  24. Tim,

    I love your podcast! I think I’ve probably listened to all of them. This style where you just give questions and the person gives the answers is okay but it’s much more enjoyable to listen to you do follow up questions where you can really understand what it is the expert is saying.

    Maybe you can do a follow up call with the person to drill down to some of the more complex information they are discussing.


  25. Does anyone know what “super-supplements” (and brands) Dr. Patrick is using everyday?

    She praises stuff like sulphuraphane, CQ10, glutathione, curcumin, krill oil, vitamin K. But she should really publish her daily supplement regime, because it’s honestly hard to know what to incorporate myself without going overboard.

  26. Thank you again for the great free content.

    I personally find it hard to engage however when someone is reading off a script. I’d prefer it more natural (a la Attia/D’Agostino) even if it meant a less accurate answer.

    Thanks anyhow though.

  27. Rhonda is AMAZING! I can’t even imagine the amount of hours she has had to study to get all this information! I love how each podcast takes me on a “rabbit-hole nose dive” of self discovery!

    1. Great idea to interview Nyad. Maybe Tim can be the one who finally gets her to come clean. She never proved that she swam all the way from Cuba to Florida, and she has lied about many other things (please see Diana Nyad Fact Check: http://www.nyadfactcheck.com).

  28. Thank you, thank you Dr Rhonda Patrick!!!! This is one of the best episodes ever. The amount of information packed in here is simply incredible. I can see myself listening to this again and again – its an absolute gold mine. Loved it. Yes, she does talk fast (VERY) but that just means you get more information!

  29. Great. More information than you get in most books in one podcast. Will relisten at least 2 times. Also makes me look forward to Tools of Titans II.

  30. The “Crystal Body Deodorant Stick” in your 5/5 5 bullet Friday is alum crystal which is also useful for stemming bleeding from shaving nicks.

  31. Whoa, this was so much info… I will be listening, with a notepad, at least 2 more times. Love Dr. Rhonda, she’s one of my favorite guests!!

  32. Great recommendations Dr. Patrick!

    Thank you for providing show notes Tim. The speed of delivery was a bit fast otherwise really enjoyed the episode.

  33. This is a great format for Dr. Rhonda: ask her a question, sit back, shut up and take notes! The proverbial sip from a fire hose, incredible. I especially liked the focus on timing of cold stress as I’ve been experimenting with that and had a lot of questions, many answered here – THANKS!

  34. I love this podcast and speak very highly of it. This was so painful that I couldn’t get past even a couple minutes. She’s clearly reading. Please never do this again.

    1. Great question! I’m very interested as well as to the differences, and if steam rooms provide the same benefits

  35. Dr. Patrick,

    This was an excellent pod cast! I am an osteopathic doc who does pain management/internal medicine/addiction medicine in both a PP and a community health setting. Some very challenging populations and your podcast gave me a lot of food for thought and some possible ways to help my patients, as well as myself. I am extremely pleased with the way you ground all of your information from the literature and evidence, where available. I am very intrigued with the idea of time restricted eating and I may start giving my patients instructions in this regards to help with weight loss and insulin resistance.

    I do have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you have any information on hot tubs and is there any data on any benefits from utilizing hot tubs? it doesn’t seem like the temperatures are high enough but I defer to you.

    2. Any thoughts on Mega doses of things like Vitamin C, D etc? Getting doses through IV vs orally.

    Again, thanks for the great info!

  36. I was curious after listening to your show: I know you said that anything other than water breaks the fast in the morning, but how do you feel about taking a keytone supplement like KetoCaNa before morning exercise? Since it perpetuates the ketotic state from fasting does it count as a break? I’m not nit-picking, I just want to know when to set my clock for experimentation purposes.

  37. One question that comes to mind: when discussing NSAID risk factors, the source articles mention “prolonged” use but don’t really specify any sort of timeline. I’d be curious to see how that’s defined. I’d assume that a prescribed round based on injury treatment wouldn’t fit the bill, but I’d like to see this spelled out more clearly.

  38. I wish I could get a transcript. She talks so fast that I cannot really understand her. Its just exhausting and annoying.

  39. I bailed after 20 minutes which is rare. Sounded like she was just reading from a pre-written script and under some ticking clock requirements or something. If you are going to do that…slow down…BREATHE. I have no doubt she’s a fountain of information but a one-on-one interview would be better.

    1. Hi Peter, Dr. Rhonda is master class level, concentration is required, as is home work and background. No ads, no pablum. If you want the easy listening version try Jimmy Moore.

      “Nutrient density” is on the menu, I for one applaud her extraordinary efforts. Dr. Patrick provides this through crowd funding, no corporate sponsors that I’m aware of, which is why I’m a supporter on Patreon. Think about it, join me.

  40. Rhonda / Tim,

    Great info…so much info…mind blown.

    Quick question around your recommendation to “do whatever it takes to triple vegetable consumption”….I’ll look into making your micronutrient smoothie, but would Athletic Greens or Vital Greens go a long way to addressing this too?

  41. This was one of the best casts in the history of the show. It rival’s Dom’s stuff in terms of density and quality (not to say either one is better than the other). I also personally love the monologue for a cast with this kind of information. Incredible – I’ll listen more than once, which is saying a lot considering the length.

  42. I have been substantial experimenting with Sulphoraphane since 2003 and was so glad Dr.Rhonda covered her own use of the compound found in broccoli sprouts. However, maybe due to time constraint, she forgot to mention an important fact about sulphoraohane – being a sulfur compound, it does a deep work of detox in the liver, bringing detox symptoms that may be quite uncomfortable in the first few days of taking sulphoraphane extract. A slow start is crucial. Also in the first few weeks of taking sulphoraphane extract, one needs to make sure that there is sufficient bowel movements, deep breathing, skin brushing etc. Sulphoraphane will clear toxins out of the liver but the body needs to eliminate these toxins through the skin, digestive system and respiratory system. If the broccoli sprouts are eaten as she mention, the body is more attuned to the detox process and it will be hard to overdose at first. The broccoli sprouts are ‘hot’, sulphur being a fire element and the excess heat from high dosage will create a natural ‘repelling’ effect and tame down the desire to consume too many of it. A slow steady increase is the best approach, with an emphasis on supporting the various elimination processes in the first few weeks of usage.

    I am not a doctor, just a naturopath but this is what I have observed from years of using sulphoraphane. One last thing I would like to mention is the importance of ingesting raw fats like coconut oil, flax oil, avocados etc. while taking sulphoraphane. Sulphur is linked to fire. A surplus of fire will trigger a cascade of enzymatic responses in the body ranging from liver detox, increased performance of the immune system etc but might also imbalance the digestive system. An decent intake of fats consumed after taking the sulphoraphane will decrease the ‘fiery’ effect of the sulphur and balance the digestive system.

  43. An alternative to Meriva is blending 2 teaspoons of bee pollen ( +- 15% phospholipid content ) with 1 teaspoon of a high quality tumeric powder ( or fresh grated turmeric root ) and 2 cups of nut or seed milk (almond, sesame etc). As an athlete I have seen tremendous benefits from this simple combination and I feel good about the fact that I encourage my local botanical dispensary and local bee keepers. I am certain Meriva is an amazing product, I just want to point out the fact that you can achieve similar results by blending bee pollen with turmeric. The quality of the phospholipids in raw bee pollen is superior to soy lecithin extracts in my opinion and it also provides proteins.

  44. * Spirulina is a great source of vegetarian iron and does not contain phytates to inhibit its absorption.

  45. Absolutely phenomenal podcast with Dr.Patrick. She is amazing. I will need to listen to it again when I am not commuting to take notes, but I will also be frequenting her podcast. I LOVE that she can talk high level biochem and then bring it down to basic recommendations by the end. Tim, Keep up the awesome work. Also since I just recently found your podcast, I recently listened to Mr. Money Mustache, which I also found very informative.

  46. Fantastic podcast.

    I’ve been listening to it each day for the past few days (including in the sauna) and loving all this newfound knowledge.

    Rhonda mentioned nicotinamide riboside (NR). I started taking this about 4 months ago (intially 125mg, now 200mg/day) and immediately noticed an improvement in sleep and mood.

    There has been an enormous amount of research on NAD repletion and NR recently.

    I don’t believe Rhonda mentioned that amazing class of enzymes called Surtuins, but the role of these, NAD+ and PARylation are well worth understanding. Some titles…

    NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances life span in mice

    Overcoming ATM Deficiency by Activating the NAD+/SIRT1 Axis

    NAD+ repletion improves muscle function in muscular dystrophy and counters global PARylation

    NAD+ Replenishment Improves Lifespan and Healthspan in Ataxia Telangiectasia Models via Mitophagy and DNA Repair.

    Vitamin B3 modulates mitochondrial vulnerability and prevents glaucoma in aged mice

    Calorie restriction and sirtuins revisited

    A conserved NAD+ binding pocket that regulates protein-protein interactions during aging

    Jim Watson’s “Top 12” List of “Things I Learned about Aging” in 2013


      1. Rhonda mentioned she was taking Thorne’s 125mg supplement. If you’re looking for a daily supplement, the points she made about certification are relevant.

        Apparently one company has the patent on NR synthesis, but there are several manufacturer. I believe there are many precursors that can convert to NAD+.

        I wonder what options there are for monitoring NAD+ levels…

  47. Mind wasn’t blown – just expanded so much that telomeres lengthened out my nose and ears like spaghetti worms.

  48. Awesome episode, I’m still listening since I had to rewind & WTF so often. Will definitely be experimenting w/daily micronutrient supplements as well as time-restricted eating.

    I would’ve liked to hear more on performance enhancing nutrients: vasodilation was mentioned and I understand that the nitric oxide content in beets has attracted a lot of attention and wanted to know about similar foods. Marijuana is also a vasodilator and I’m curious about its applications, if any, in a sports recovery setting

  49. A bit confused now! I have been following RP’s advice of time restricted eating to within a 9 hour window for the last six months or so (find it quite easy and going well) however I work a random schedule and normally wind back 9 hours from when I know I’ll be able to eat at night and use that as a guide as when to start each day.

    Am I hearing right that I should just be eating upon waking and starting the time restriction then to gain maximum benefits? Seems to contradict what is in Tools of Titans….

    Any advice appreciated 🙂

    1. As everything related to body and goals… it depends. Maximum benefits is a very fussy term. There may be benefits that aren’t for you due to your genes, and eating late may have benefits that aren’t researched yet. I would say that if putting your eating window at night works for you, keep doing it that way. If there is a specific benefit you are looking for that is related to putting the eating window in the morning, give it a shot, measure, experiment and if your schedule allows it and you find it easy, change it. As Tim says, it is better a mediocre plan that you can follow that the perfect plan that you just trashed away (I am butchering the quote, but the spirit is the same).

      1. Great point – complex systems are rarely black and white.

        I actually looked into it as I did 23andMe and was notified of being in the highest risk bracket for Alzheimers and in my early 30’s I’m taking some preventative measures. Found some excellent advice from Ben Greenfield’s podcast and show notes also and this episode also has a ton of great advice.

  50. Way too fast. I feel like I was listening to an infomercial. But I’m happy you had Rhonda and I did get something out of this.

  51. This podcast was phenomenal! Thank you so much Tim and Dr. Patrick! I completely agree that this needs a transcript–it’s certainly a lot to digest in one sitting.

  52. Listening to this one is like beast day workout at the gym. It hurts, and you pretty much hate it the whole time, but when it’s done you’re glad you did it. I love Dr. Rhonda. Somebody post notes and I’ll send you a present!

  53. Tim, Rhonda,

    Do you have any research on health benefits of ofuro – Japanese bath? Is it comparable with sauna?

  54. So Dr. Rhonda mentions specifically that circadian is an important consideration when fasting.

    As someone that often starts work after lunch but arrives from work quite a while after sundown, I would like to know if there’s still some benefit to be had from switching it up and “skipping” breakfast to allow for the 10 to 14 hour fasting period. (So let’s say first non-water intake at 1:30 PM, last at 9:30 PM).

    Thanks for the podcast, I agree it was a bit hard to follow (and I have a medical degree, so it’s not really so much about the informational content but more about the way it’s presented) but still incredibly valuable information.

  55. that was a content-rich podcast! Thanks Tim for consistently delivering highest-quality material.

    One short question for those out there with some biochemistry background: frozen veggies are better than none. But which ones are OK’ish to consume frozen and which ones really need to fresh?

    have a great weekend and enjoy your “faturday” 🙂

  56. Great podcast as always, too much information, I feel like drinking from an hydrant. Just one comment, I don’t see cold exposure results of the 2 studies mentioned as opposite. One study demonstrated decrease on hypertrofy and the other demonstrated increase on strength (or performance for jumping, running, etc…). It seems to me that cold exposure decreases hypertrofy, but doesn’t affect neural adaptations to exercise. So, with cold you can increase your strength (by neural adaptations, recruiting more the neural system) without actual hypertrofy. Which is what Ryan Flaherty does with their trainees using low rep range with high intensity and only concentric movements. In the pursue of speed it looks like a good tool, follow the protocols recomended by Mr. Flaherty and immediately after the training cold exposure on the trained muscles.What you think?

  57. Wow.

    Dr. Patrick had some really great information here, but it was almost like playing Catch the Leaf in the Hurricane. I’ve never heard another human being talk so fast for so long. I agree with several others in that I think a full transcript would be a wonderful addition.

  58. Very informative podcast, although way less entertaining without you, Tim. If the topic was less riveting, I probably would not have lasted til the end. However, info is info and she definitely sounds like an expert. The following is a list of more alternative or DIY type of health related things which piqued my curiosity over the years.

    Some things that I would LOVE to hear her either debunk or sing praises on:

    1. Usage of say 2 or 3 drops of medical grade hydrogen peroxide in a glass of water every third day for a limited time to kill parasites, viruses etc. This is something that I have personally tried with no ill effects a few times but a proper analysis would be great, as it can kill you as well apparently when done incorrectly.

    2. Usage of Zantac and Zyrtec together for chronic allergies which include skin flareups. (H1 & H2 inhibitors) – analysis of effectiveness

    3. Tagament – alternative uses (analysis)

    4. Mast Cell disorder analysis – Never heard of this until recently. People with allergies and sensitivities to numerous things could benefit from a proper analysis. It would explain a lot for many probably and my guess is that it is WAY more prevalent than suggested.

    5. Curious what she thinks of the Wim Hof phenomenon breathing technique and if she has personally tried it. He is on to some next level biz.

    6. Curious what her take is on psilocybin or MDMA usage for helping with mental issues. I picked up some info somewhere that you are an investor in this area as well. Plz dig deeper. BTW magic truffles are legal here and quite fun.

    Keep up the good work. Your podcasts are seriously a force to be reckoned with and have helped me a lot.

    Best regards,


    in NL

  59. Dr. Patrick is a super-concentrated dynamo. She has studied her a$$ off and is trying to get us as much info in the shortest amount of time. I appreciate that. Love this format. Love Rhonda Patrick. Love the TF podcast.

  60. Errr, yeah. This Woman can talk like a machine gun.

    Listened to this while driving, hope I didn’t run anyone over….

    This podcast needs turning into a book.

    Interesting one about fasting, eating earlier in the day, and not at night.

    Wonder how that works for manual labourers, who come home hungry?

    Off to find a forum, must be one online somewhere.

    Might find out why I can’t sleep without eating, and why I can hardly stay awake for the next two hours, if I eat breakfast.

    Great podcast, with a whole load of rabbit holes I need to go down.


    1. I work a 4pm – 1 am shift and find 2 meals per day with my last meal being @8pm about right. Hard but satisfying. Eating has become an event.

  61. I am so sorry but this format doesn’t work, the spark in the show is your honest banter with the guest. Dr Rhonda just packed way way too much information in per sentence that it wasn’t enjoyable to listen to. This is a real shame as she clearly is a very knowledgeable person and kind to share her learnings. If I had half of one hundredth of her knowledge base I would be proud as punch, but on this podcast I tuned out fast, which is my loss.

  62. Loved this episode. Would also really appreciate a transcript. I listen to these while driving/doing chores and there were tons of times when I wished I could take some notes. Thanks Dr. Patrick for freely giving the info that you’ve spent years researching. It is very much appreciated (even if I did have to pause and absorb several times 😉

  63. Rhonda Patrick is amazing, been following her content for over a year. BUT the 2.5 audio essay has an overwhelming amount of info in it. It almost feels paralysing how much in depth info she’s throwing at the listener. The info is that much harder to absorb because she’s reading off a piece of paper and it seem’s very robotic. If we could PLEASE get the transcript she was reading off that would be amazing.

  64. This was great!!! So much amazing information stuffed in to such a short period of time!!! I only understood every 10th word but that was enough to walk a way with a ton of things to change my life and confirm things I was doing right and wrong. I will re-listen several more time and when I can take notes.

  65. I’ve been water fasting for two days. My concern deals with my water quality. I have one of those intense water purification systems that removes almost everything from tap water. It takes the tds to near zero. Normally I add about 2 milliliters of concentrated Mineral drops (200mg magnesium, 580mg chloride, 5mg sodium, 40mg sulfate) to my gallon water jug that I drink from throughout the day. Is this going to effect the outcome of my fast? Should I quit adding the drops while I’m fasting?

    You read on the web and people say they only drink distilled water. I don’t know if this was covered by Tim or Rhonda. Thanks!

  66. Why can’t I fast-forward the podcasts anymore? Makes it really difficult when I can leave my computer on.

  67. Hello, I’m not sure if it is appropriate to write in asking for advice like this, but I am feeling somewhat desperate and thought I’d give it a try. I am a fairly experienced nootropics user, experimenting with a number of different racetams, adaptogens, and more obscure substances. I reserve many of these for specific situations, but my daily stack has been refined to: Lion’s Mane, Rhodiola Rosea, Bacopa, Caffeine, (Sometimes Ashwaganda) and NALT (and usually Magnesium at night). The other day I had a particularly strenuous event which required long term energy and focus (and I had not been sleeping much), so along with that daily stack I added Modafinil and Phenylpiracetam, both of which I have used before. I felt great and was able to move throughout the day with energy and clarity. At the end of the event, without even thinking about it, I had a few drinks of alcohol to celebrate. Almost immediately after these drinks, I could tell this probably wasn’t a great idea. I felt much more drunk than I should have on the amount of alcohol I consumed, and my brain started to get particularly foggy. That night I also took some GABA to help me get to sleep. Now, 5 days after this occurrence, my head still feels very ‘full’ and under pressure, not quite painful but not normal. I am having terrible brain fog, cannot focus well, especially on written text, and my memory seems really disrupted. I am processing everything much slower and with greater difficulty than ever before and have caught myself spacing out frequently. I know that mixing racetams with alcohol is highly cautioned against because of increased blood flow to the brain and more potential for damage, but I was so relieved at the completion of this event that I didn’t think twice about celebrating with drinks. I am wondering if you have any advice on what I can do to repair some of the damage I may have done. It’s been 5 days now and I still feel VERY foggy. Will this slowly dissipate, or could I have done something permanent? Thank you so much for reading and any advice you can share would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Just a guess here, but because of the way you worded your post, it looks like you’re soliciting medical advice and you’re not likely to get Tim or anyone else to give that to you in a public form due to legal liability issues. Suggest you post something which doesn’t have all the arrows pointing back at you personally for a response and see if maybe someone can enlighten you. I’d post something about trying to understand the mechanisms behind XYZ than about the effects you are personally experiencing. Still might not get a reply but you’re at least increasing your chances.

  68. On sulfuraphane and Nrf2 activation, note it’s not all positive…. Check the literature “Nrf2 inactivation enhances placental angiogenesis in a preeclampsia mouse model and improves maternal and fetal outcomes”

    ie. turning off Nrf2 enhances outcomes for fetuses!

    “These results indicate that ROS are necessary for the placental angiogenesis that reduces the risk of preeclampsia, and help to explain the negative results of the clinical trials of antioxidants.”

  69. Wow, just wow! Fitness, nutrition and supplementation doesn’t get much more scientific than this! Dr Rhonda is not only a subject matter expert but is passionate about the topics and knows them so well she can talk non stop about them! fantastic

  70. This is MIND BLOWING! I am a transformational nutrition coach and am doing/recommending a lot of what Rhonda says. It is solid advice and I learnt a lot. Love it! PS. Transcript would be great indeed. Thank you

  71. Dr. Rhonda was like a firehouse of biological awesomeness in this show. Was actually hard to keep up! Would LOVE a transcript so I can share certain tidbits which I think would be helpful to others (the data on sugar for example). Show notes on Tim’s blog are already encyclopedic (best on the ‘net frankly) and I hate to add more load to his team, but for shows like this one, it would be amazing to have the ability to snip certain gems and share them out to others who are, frankly, just missing out.

    There are other bits which require at least a layperson’s familiarity with biology etc. which I would not share so much, on the other hand. So I wouldn’t be able to ask many of my friends to go through this cast because it would snow them under with words that would turn them off.

    So ability to share certain selections in text form would be huge.

  72. WOW – what an episode! Normally listen on 2x speed, but had to slow down to 1x and take notes. So much to take in!

    I’ve recently started intermittent fasting, using the 16/8 method (usually fasting from 8pm till midday), but I’ve been having some peppermint tea with coconut oil upon waking – this quells my hunger, and (I thought) was prepping my metabolism to use fat as its primary energy source rather than glucose, but after listening to this episode, it’s got me thinking whether I’m doing the right thing or not.

    Should I be *strictly* fasting (nothing but water) for those 16 hours to get maximum benefit, or am I OK to “cheat” and take the Coconut Oil with peppermint tea? Especially after hearing Art De Vany’s views on Coconut Oil!

    (my primary goal is fat loss, but also interested in cell regeneration benefits too!)

    1. I have a similar concern and goal.

      I started a 16/8 protocol myself last week, after listening to this podcast and Rhonda’s interviews with Valter Longo, Satchin Panda, and Ruth Patterson. Rhonda often dismissed coffee, but Dave Asprey is adamant that his Bulletproof Coffee concoction (coffee, ghee and coconut oil/MCT oil) does not break the fasting cycle. So, would love some clarification too on this question.

      1. Okay, I just listened to the podcast again, more carefully this time. Rhonda deals with the coffee issue by stating that anything non-water that is consumed can be “reasonably expected” to have metabolic effects that influence the peripheral systems (that’s not an exact quote but close enough).

        The key here is “reasonably expected” (that is an exact quote). I think she’s admitting that this is not proven but likely. So, I’m going to keep testing the protocol with coffee —because I can’t live without it— for a total of 2 weeks, then test the protocol without coffee —I’m sure I’ll give up after a couple of hours 🙂 I’ll let you know if I notice any difference.

      2. To confirm for yourself, listen to the podcast recording from 0:15:20.

        It’s worth noting that she is linking the drinking of coffee to its effect of the circadian rhythm and metabolism, not just metabolism. So, it’s entirely possible that coffee doesn’t effect caloric intake per se. Whether this minimal amount of calories are enough to drop one out of fasting, it seems to me, is still debatable.

  73. Is there anyway to get a list of the supplements and brands mentioned in the podcast in list form (sorry if this is answered somewhere else)

  74. omg.. I’m exhausted.. had to slow her down… forget the comments about interviewing–no need for Tim…Rhonda the robot just told us everything we need to know.. add a little Dom, and we are done with biohacking. suggest you folks that want transcript listen to this for 5 mins a days as health devotion and send Rhonda a donation! Tim.. .you know damn good people!

  75. Thanks for this info upload (overload!) – Rhonda obviously knows a lot about this area.

    I just noticed the wikipedia articles on Fasting and Water Fasting are woefully dismissive of the health benefits; and very low on any citations to research.

    Perhaps Rhonda (or yourself, Tim) could help pad them out with all of this useful information…?

  76. The discount for Gateway17 event is coming up at $250, not the $375 that is stated in your Ronda Patrick podcast.

  77. Hi Tim, Im wondering if you would do a episode on Gene therapy for sport injury related arthritis treatment, as a 38 man with the ankle of 80 year old im super interested in the new field of stem cell regeneration of bone tissue and cartilage but im unclear on the best avenues for treatment

  78. I immediately took an element of circadian fast (morning) to my routine, and just loving the extra time in the morning!

    And, about 10 items added to my pantry list.

    I keep it simple, and this was complex, but still of immense value to me. Thank you Rhonda, thank you Tim.

  79. She was great but I learned very little. It was so fast — and she was speed reading. So grateful for transcripts!