“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
— Mark Twain
For nearly 15 years, I started almost every public presentation with the above quote. First and foremost, it was a reminder to myself. It still is.
Four score and 750+ episodes ago, I started a podcast.
In 2023, The Tim Ferriss Show crossed a billion downloads. This past April marked the 10th anniversary of the first episode. It seemed as good a time as any to pause and reflect.
Let’s kick it off with a weird graph and wild numbers:
The dip in 2022 is simply the resumption of pre-COVID trends, as 2020–2021 was an at-home anomaly. That said, the pandemic period saw some of the largest deals in the space, and it helped propel deal comps and mass media attention to new heights, a lot of which stuck around or at least heavily rounded up. The celebrities, the ad dollars, the gazillion-dollar exclusives, the controversies… It’s all been outrageously exciting to watch.
When I started my podcast in April of 2014, there were fewer than 200,000 podcasts listed on iTunes (as Apple Podcasts was called back then). At the time of writing this post, there are more than 4,200,000.
That represents a 20x+ increase, but there are other interesting metrics to ponder. Here’s one: bigger shows.
If we define a “bigger” show as any show with at least 100,000 downloads per episode, I would guess the total number of such shows has at least 100x’d. This is a massive paradox of choice and discovery issue. Having a good show is no longer good enough. Having a great show is no longer good enough.
If you want to survive in the mindshare of listeners, you need differentiation.
I think this is reflected in how well special-interest podcasts with a focus (e.g., The Drive with Peter Attia, Founders, Huberman Lab, Acquired) have done recently relative to newer interview-format shows where nearly anything goes.
As is so often the case, if you stand for everything, you can end up standing for nothing.
So, how do you differentiate yourself if every person and their grandma is starting a podcast?
If you’re starting from scratch, I think choosing a niche you have a bizarre love for—and therefore endurance for—makes a lot of sense.
If, on the other hand, you have a broader, interview-based legacy show, it can be a little tricky. Perhaps the business is great, but you see the writing on the wall and want to be ahead of the curve. As I see it, there are at least a few options:
(1) Start a new podcast with a niche focus. Sadly, I suspect I would get bored within weeks or months, but it’s not off the table…
(2) Pack up your tent and walk off into the sunset in search of other adventures.
(3) Create new and better rules.
I landed on #3.
In the midst of a weekly ship cycle, it’s hard to escape the collective pull of algo chasing, thumbnail tweaking, and details long enough to zoom out. The waters have been churning at a fever pitch, ever changing and ever faster. When you’re inside the washing machine, it’s very hard to step out and get perspective.
So I decided to take a sabbatical of roughly four months. It ended a few weeks ago.
During the sabbatical, I stopped recording new episodes, republished some of the greatest hits (e.g., Jamie Foxx, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Margaret Atwood, Jerry Seinfeld, and more), and did a lot of thinking.
The full break allowed me and my team enough breathing room to think about the long game. What do we want to do, and furthermore, why are we doing this at all?
Since nearly all the rules are made up anyway, I asked myself a bunch of questions, including:
What might this look like if it were maximally fun?
What might this look like if it were easy?
If I get to do this for another decade, or had to do this for another decade, what new rules might I create to keep it interesting?
Of course, these are implicitly “for me.” It’s a highly personal thing.
In my experience, keeping it interesting for me generally keeps it interesting for my lovely listeners. At the very least, it’s the only way to ensure I have the enthusiasm required for endurance.
Sure, sometimes what-Tim-likes is too strange and misses the mark, but trying to cater to the tastes of an abstract “audience” or the YouTube gods, without paying attention to what you like, has sent a lot of podcasts to the elephant graveyard.
And even if you manage to “win” that game, winning might be the most dangerous.
Rather than getting Old Yeller’d behind the barn, you have just enough income or traction or validation or growth to make it seem crazy to stop. How could you shut it down? Then you adjust to the creeping boredom and incremental gains, and you convince yourself that it’s all a cost of doing business. You start by feeding the machine through the cage, only to wake up one day and realize that you’re the one inside the cage. For an extreme example, read this article on audience capture, but it can take many forms. Some are very subtle.
Media is a great tool and a merciless master.
Fortunately, this is NOT how things need to be.
Based on all of the above, here are some new rules that I’ll be implementing starting today:
No more book-launching episodes.
The podcasting circuit has largely become the same authors appearing on 15–30 podcasts in any given week or two for book launches. It’s the modern equivalent of a radio satellite tour. For authors, I totally get it, but I’m over it, and I know a lot of my podcast friends are over it. It’s boring for everyone.
So, I’m opting out. No more book-launch episodes for a while.
If I make an exception, it will likely require that both of the following conditions are true:
– You’re a truly close friend, meaning we’ve known each other for at least 10 years, we’ve stayed at each other’s homes, see each other multiple times a year, etc.
AND
– The episode will come out a minimum of three months before the book’s publication date. Early can be a great strategy for authors. This is exactly what I’ve done with past guests like Jocko Willink, who made his first-ever podcast appearance (in fact, first public interview) on The Tim Ferriss Show in September of 2015. I suggested we publish well before his pub date because this space would allow his publisher to gauge pre-order demand and substantially increase the initial print run. His first book, Extreme Ownership, hit the New York Times bestseller list, and the rest is history. Even one month is quite tight if overseas printing is involved, and sadly, a lot of podcasters don’t respect embargos (crabs in a bucket!), so… at least three months in advance it is.
90/10 barbell strategy for future guests.
The barbell strategy is an approach to investing popularized by past guest, author, and self-described flâneur Nassim Nicholas Taleb.
The metaphor of the barbell is apt because weights are placed at the far ends. In the investing context and in simple terms, the majority of your assets might be in very conservative positions with the remaining assets in very high-risk, very high-reward bets. For instance, municipal bonds and angel investing. The middle is empty.
But how could you apply this to a podcast? It’s actually very easy. Just look for extremes. I apply the barbell approach all over my life and business.
In the case of The Tim Ferriss Show, I will aim to interview guests who are either:
Known by more than 90% of my audience (e.g., Jeff Bezos, Steven Spielberg, Oprah Winfrey)
Or
Known by less than 10% of my audience (e.g., some of my favorite past episodes, like Dr. BJ Miller, Boyd Varty, Dr. Sue Johnson, or Elan Lee)
I’m trying to avoid the messy middle, which is a Tokyo subway car of repeat guests on the circuit. It’s crowded, and I don’t like crowded. Cue The Blue Ocean Strategy.
Prioritizing living legends.
I love people who’ve mastered a craft and who seldom—or never—do podcasts.
I really enjoy interviewing masters who’ve produced excellence decade after decade. This often means such people have some gray hair, and I would love to celebrate them and immortalize their wisdom while they’re still sharp. The last person holding a tradition, the 10th generation of X, a reclusive genius… you get the idea.
Experimental hyperdrive.
I’ve experimented a lot on the show in the past, and I’m going to put that into hyperdrive. It’s simply more fun.
I have done podcasts in saunas (e.g., Rick Rubin’s first-ever podcast), live Q&As, walk-and-talk episodes in the mountains, drunk-dialing fans for shits and giggles, interviews in taxis in Uzbekistan, audiobook excerpts, and more. It’s easy to assume that slick, labor-intensive, polished episodes get the most downloads, but it’s simply not true. And much more important, the experimentation keeps things fun and fresh. After all, I still consider this the early days for podcasting. Less than one-third of terrestrial radio ad spend has landed in podcasting thus far, and there’s lots of room left to innovate and make strange things work.
If you only stick with what has worked, you might miss something that works a whole lot better.
So, if you want to listen to one podcast that delivers a variety of fun stuff in a variety of formats, that’s the next chapter. Maybe I should rebrand as The Tim Ferriss Variety Show… or make a mobile-only TimTim WalkWalk? That last one is for the oldies.
So, let’s get this party started.
I’ll continue to add to these policies and this blog post, but in the meantime, I would love your suggestions:
What would you like to see or hear on the podcast?
Are there any experiments that would tickle your fancy? Or podcasts or formats I should see for inspiration?
Any guests that fit the 90/10 barbell strategy? Living legends?
Other thoughts or suggestions?
Please let me know in the comments below! Comments here are far better than social media, as I’ll actually see them. And thanks for reading this far.
All the best to you and yours,
Tim
P.S. If you haven’t already, you can subscribe to The Tim Ferriss Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you find your audio niblets.
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International guests – still largely American/Anglo perspectives, opinions, guests…when you yourself are quite worldly.
Tim, you would be FASCINATED by qigong (the true power of internal martial arts like Tai Chi Chuan), and the reasons why people who really know it often won’t teach it openly.
Sifu Richard Clear is the real deal: With 40 years getting “indoor training” from several true masters his skills are next level. More importantly, he teaches openly. Meaning, he gives the real stuff from Day 1. Very smart, humble, down to earth, no woo-woo. His school, Clear Tai Chi, is physically located in Maryville, Tenn. https://www.cleartaichi.com/
Tim,
I would enjoy more podcasts with Kevin Rose. Also, if you have similar relationships with others who are about your age and are as bright and interesting as Kevin, maybe they’d be candidates for doing a periodic show along the lines of what you do with Kevin. I’ve been listening to your podcast since day one and am in my 60s now. I enjoy hearing what you and your friends are interested in and thinking about.
Thanks.
–Harold / Minnesota
PS- Would love to hear a follow-up interview with Pavel.
I began to get podcast fatigue a while back. As you mentioned in your post…the same handful of folks turning up as guests on all the big name ‘chat’ shows. It all started to feel a bit cynical, like the content of the podcast only existed as a verhicle to sell me stuff e.g. books, lifestyle, suppliments etc. especially Athletic Greens which seems to be pushed by EVERY chat show podcaster…probably because it makes a ton of money for the podcasters…but as a punter it increasingly feels like it’s a scam (there’s a few youtube videos explaining why AG1 is not all it appears to be).
The podcasts I now listen too don’t feel like an infomercial or make me feel inferior because I don’t have the perfect ‘morning routine’ of an internet billionaire. They feel authentic and are both entertaining and educational. Currently I’ve been regularly listening to the Rest is History (The Rest is Politics is good too), Miss Me and The Road to Joni.
The motivation to make a show should come from a genuine place, not as cynical hustle to make people rich. I get that podcasting is a business but there is such a thing as not for profit, or at least business that care and value their customers.
I want the anti-Ferriss interview. Instead of someone exceptional, interview a regular chick or dude (TFS listener) mid-career with a 9-5 desk job scrapping to pay for kids education and retirement and get some enjoyment out of life. Could you make it interesting?
You know those clips of random street interviews? I love it when they approach elderly people, regardless of their story or background. If possible, I’d love to hear Tim speak with people in their 80s and above.
Also, now that I’ve mentioned street interviews, I’m thinking it could be an interesting setting for Tim to experiment with.
I’m at the extreme end of the barbell: 80 years old, started a podcast (check out From Zero To 80 with Jack Rahaim [Moderator: Links redacted per link policy.]) and am enjoying the process of growing up and getting older. We should talk.
Book a 4 week trip to Japan and get 8 to 12 interviews lined up with a bunch of multi generation Japanese craftsmen.
There are loads of examples on the Great Big Story YouTube channel but they are all so short and I’m desperate to know more about the thought process and philosophy these guys have.
Think Jiro Dreams of Sushi in podcast form.
One example would be with Yasuhiro Hirakawa, the only traditional scissor maker left in Japan, who’s bonsai scissors sell for up to $35,000!
Ticks all the boxes you mention about preserving knowledge from unknown living legends.
I know you have some Japanese skills but you’ll probably need translators which will be more hard work than English speaking guests but you can be sure that none of these guys will have done a podcast before.
I know you enjoy reading some fiction, maybe even some fantasy. Brandon Sanderson would be an excellent podcast guest, and I think your format of interview and questioning could bring out some excellent conversation. He is probably the best-selling fantasy author currently and is getting some gray hair haha!
His books (Stormlight specifically) also highlight mental health in a way that makes me weep like a small child, I think you would enjoy it and even be moved by it.
Hey Tim, great post. Living legends… you might want to interview my father, Shad Helmstetter. He popularized the term “self-talk” in the 80s with his book, “What to Say When You Talk to Your Self.” He’s in his 80s now. He’s done thousands of interviews over the years, but I don’t think anybody has ever recorded his own story connecting the dots between his time in naval intelligence in Guantanamo Bay during the Cuban Missile Crisis and his lifelong devotion to helping people rewire their brains through language. It’s a pretty cool story, though I am biased. 🙂
This is fantastic… We just need Kevin Rose quarterly or at least semi-annually though!
I will reflect on these rules in my decision making, for sure! Being almost 60 I certainly appreciate the comment of looking to use who may be experienced.
Most importantly, I found your podcast during Covid and I am not willing to give you up! I am drinking my AG1 everyday and wearing my Vouri out! I was wearing it before it was cool in my over 55 neighborhood. Now everyone is😊
Oh and you inspired me creatively after being a CPA 30+ years. I am drawing almost every night. I look forward to your adventures (and the ones you inspire for me)!
I like your podcasts, maybe more the midweek one rather than the Friday one. I ignored the two at a time golden oldies. I would ;like to say that two hours plus is way too long for a podcast. By about 1 hour 40 minutes. And finally, I reckon the barbell method should apply to the podcast. 10% host 90% guest. That would cut 40 minutes anyway.
Would love to hear Robert Caro and Phil Jackson on the show!
I don’t know if it’s my ADHD, but I seldom feel moved to watch or listen to an entire podcast. I would like to see more entertaining conversations that engage both sides of my brain. When I am interviewed on podcasts, I often answer the questions as the Spiritual Dr. Seuss, in spontaneous rap and rhyme. I also have my guitar by my side and converse in improvisational song.) I was a stand up improv comic for many years, turned trans-fun-mational teacher. I would love to be your guest sometime. Although I am an author, I have nothing to promote but joy and freedom.
Hi Tim, this is a 10% barbell suggestion. This year I met an incredible man named Alphonso James. Arrested and convicted at 17 for a murder he did not commit, Alphonso spent 32 years in prison – 5 in solitary confinement. He was released in 2017 and has since been on a journey to 1) catch up on life and 2) to use his experience to inspire others to stay positive and make the biggest impact possible on every person he meets. There’s a ton more to his story of
course, including the road to full exoneration that he’s on – the community he’s building in WI called UnFragile – and the life with his children and grandchildren that he is establishing and loving. I think he’s a person who most of us could never imagine being but once we’re in his presence look at ourselves, our problems and our perceived limitations a lot differently. I’d love to connect you and Alphonso if you’re interested. Thank you! Mike
I would love if you interviewed Joseph Goldstein, the meditation teacher. Your and his talks have changed my life and it would be fascinating to hear you interview him.
I think you would really enjoy interviewing Robert Kegan, Harvard expert in adult development. I suppose less than 10% of your audience knows him.
Split into two different (alternating?) podcasts
1. All the things u have identified – in your usual podcast edged up, near zero book reviews
2. Specific tech or life hacks that substantially prove personal productively – this is one of the early reasons we follow you and you are widely connected into the edge of the new tech. Why just numble thru
Michael
Hey Tim,
how about you have an interview with Craig Mod (take a look here: https://craigmod.com/)? He will release his new book Things Become Other Things, that he had published by himself and will be published again by Random House in a different version, next year.
He lives in Japan and maybe you can have some words in Japanease together ;). By the way, I am supporting Craig, he has a complete business on subscriptions.
Love that you switch now. Sounds interessting.
Best,
Martin
There’s this podcast by Gimlet called Startup. First season lets us follow the startup of Gimlet. Such a fun & learning podcast. That form factor probably can be applied to other creative processes like writing?
Also from Gimlet, Reply All, makes deep dives in weird topics connected to internet. Just a great show you might draw inspiration from.
Was just telling my partner the other day, how cool it would be if someone like Tim Ferris would interview ordinary people – bit of Humans of NY style, only extended, Ferris’s style! Find some failures, and ask them the same question he asks successful people: what book do you (would you) gift more often? What was your most useful mistake? What would you put on a poster? etc
Also, would love your podcast to expand geographically and go into more ethnographic direction. There are many English-speaking areas in this world, so why not tickle them?
One more dream: to see what your podcast would be like if it would be more political, or rather international affairs-ish. The tension in the world is rising, politics penetrates all areas, from economy to security to health to culture. We need someone with your analytical skills to highlight trends and prospects and dangers. I’m not talking here of any propaganda but rather of presenting different points of views in a respectful and not populist way, maybe sometimes provocative, to let us know what is actually happening around the world and how do we learn to listen to each other and initiate dialogue (William Ury was great example of what I mean here).
Apart from that, as I’m working in the film industry, I would be excited for you to hunt some living legends not from the US: Werner Herzog , Wim Wenders, Costa-Gavras, Bela Tarr.
Thanks for your work and inspiration, whatever direction the podcast will take I’m sure it will stay one of my favorites!
Interview Giselle Pellicot should she be willing/able when the case is over.
Particularly for his ethos, which has kept him somewhat below the radar, I think you’d enjoy a conversation with Bob Adams. I have no relation to him.
As an original reader and Timtim Talktalk listener, I think you’d find him fascinating.
This [Moderator: YouTube link to “So What’s Up with FutureBrief” redacted per embed policy.] provides good insight.
This is his “about me” page.
Hey Tim, thanks for the amazing work you’ve done over the years, it’s been very influencial on so many ways.
Format to do more of:
Guests – trying to focus on fields that can have application in many other fields, ie 1 topic that can be used for 100 other topics
Thanks again for the great show!
In addition to your 90/10 interviews, I’d love to see ongoing series such as:
Hell yeah. I thought you were gonna do option 2. Excited to see what comes — especially the experimental episodes!!!
Love it Tim. Have you seen the comedy podcast killtony? i think an episode of random fans getting pulled for 10-15 minutes would be interesting.
Hello Tim,
it is great you took time to reflect and came with these rules. I love them and 100% agree with you.
When it comes to guest suggestions, in the “10” category I would suggest:
For “90” category:
Thank you for all your work!
Hi Tim, great post! As a pre-amble, this is some very quick top-of-mind, no research performed feedback for you in regards to the podcast going forward.
What would you like to see or hear on the podcast? I love the discovery component of this podcast, for example someone like Boyd Varty which I only discovered recently and is now 1 of my personal favorite episodes of all time.
Are there any experiments that would tickle your fancy? Or podcasts or formats I should see for inspiration? I recommend checking out Steve Levitt’s podcast if you haven’t already, its called People who I mostly admire. I’m not sure if this is applicable to you, but I personally recently discovered another podcast called ‘Reel History’ which is fantastic.
Any guests that fit the 90/10 barbell strategy? Living legends? Are you open to retired/current professional athletes of potentially lesser known here in the US? I’m thinking of more global sports like futbol(soccer), Formula 1, rugby, etc. For example, I’d be curious to learn more about anyone who’s ever played for the New Zealand All-Blacks (or any elite level) rugby team.
Other thoughts or suggestions? Nope – keep up the great work Tim!
Thanks so much!
Tyler
Guest recommendation: Jack Butcher from Visualize Value
I’d like to hear from hockey greats like Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Sydney Crosby, etc. Selfishly, I’d like you to start playing hockey and then geek out on the details in some of your podcasts. It’s a great sport to pick up later in life, and hearing that you ski, you’d find a lot of similarities in learning to skate. After the skating, I think you’d find that you could get up to speed pretty quickly to the level where you could play in a drop in’s or a beer league, but then there are still so many other levels to skating, turning, stopping, passing, stick handling, shooting etc. that would keep you interested and challenged.
Love the idea of the new rules and constraints on who to interview and when. Some quick episode ideas.
Crazy idea for an episode, mainly because of your ability to interview and get deep answers from people, random conversations with your various Uber drivers? It could be just one person who turns out to do well and has a lot to say, or maybe multiple people answering the rapid-fire questions. It would almost be a real-time application of The Wisdom of Crowds.
Have to reaffirm the vote for Brandon Sanderson. He took the world by storm with his Kickstarter, so it’d be interesting to see the Dragonsteel business side, and it would be a service to any in your audience who didn’t know him before that. He finished Wheel of Time for Jordan and has created his own epic with The Stormlight Archive. Plus it’d be interesting to get his thoughts on Cockpunch.
Another writer that is probably barely known is Zogarth who has written a series called The Primal Hunter. He’s had a massive success using free distribution and then leveraging followers/readers onto Patreon for huge monthly numbers before even publishing to Kindle Unlimited. Again, perspective on process and business would be interesting from someone who is a very niche and indie author.
Another interview idea is someone who is crushing it in the D2D sales game. The perseverance, the confidence, the drive, the skills. It’d be interesting to see what someone who is truly at the top level in this type of sales is really like. I don’t have any particular names but I know there is a Golden Door award for the various categories. As a sales professional, I’ve always been curious about the type of person who can continue at this type of job every day but thrive and excel in it.
All the best to you Tim and the team and remember to be a little kinder than necessary, especially to yourself.
I’d love to see more guests from outside the US. being Indian, I can think of many Indian guests building the digital public infrastructure for 1.4Bn+ people who will have a lot of wisdom to share.
A few guest suggestions:
Hi Tim,
Just a thought, if you are still looking for ways to meet great women, why don’t you use the podcast to have a feminist year : interviewing only incredible women, digging to understand the stories, experiences (and of course some of the trauma), seeking a better understanding of more woman-centric issues such as mental load, glass ceilings, maternity so you can become the most amazing parter and father someone could wish for, and asking those incredible women if they can set you up with a friend of theirs.
That’s how I met my husband after thousands of swipes online, I would certainly recommend the old fashion way !
All the best in your next adventures !
Chloé
What is the demographic make-up of your guests? I think it disproportionately skews white men. I would like more demographic and geographic diversity.
My biggest issue is the ever increasing length of podcasts. With all of the choices out there sitting down for a two hour rambling conversation with any person is becoming just too difficult to schedule into a day. There are so many podcasters who say they no longer write because the audio medium is so much easier, but it’s easier for them. It removes the need to edit your thoughts and what you are presenting to the reader. You leave that to the reader or the podcast listener in this case.
It would be great if we felt like some of the shows were actually more edited. I think when you do things that, really get to a topic and are very concise and feel like there was research and thought put into the interview before getting on the microphone with a guest is especially important
Billy Joel – keep it on the Island!!
Tim,
Since you are still in the market to have a family and be a dad, How about interviewing those who have done it already (Stable marriages with kids). Many of us listeners fall into that category and would love to hear what the masses have to say about avoiding divorce, raising kids in the sports heavy and screen filled world today. How to avoid the pitfalls that go with having a lasting relationship and at the same time raising small adults along the way. Just a thought. Keep doing what you are doing as it is a breath of fresh air.
The main thing that I hope is that you ask critical questions when you need to, and will stay honest to yourself. To be honest, I was quite disappointed after your interview with Mark Zuckerberg, as it felt like you did not ask him any critical questions, which would have been very much in line with what you stand for (like the influence of Facebook and Instagram on mental health). It felt like you were not allowed to ask these questions.
TimTim!
Can’t thank you enough for the years of great content and learning. Hat’s off to you and your team, and here’s to 10 more of doing whatever the funk you want to!
My Guest Suggestion: Jaromir Jagr**
TL/DR: My all-time favorite hockey player aka the Czech superman.
Why:
**Bonus points for you interview him in his native language lol.
Looking forward to whatever the future holds for you, sir!
— Steve
P.S. If/when you’re considering a new intro music bed for the show, let me know! 🙂 Would be honored to send/make you some ideas to consider!
Some of my dream guests: Iggy Pop, Ian MacKaye (founder of Minor Threat and Fugazi), Garrison Keillor, Lynn Cheney, Al Franken, Michael Stipe. All seem to be people who’ve been around (or at the center of) some part of power/culture, but are not representative of it anymore. All people who have no reason to hold back, now beholden only to themselves.
What about interviewing people like Chomsky, AOC, Union Leaders, Activists for working people, Social Workers, etc.? Left of center, people who are able to have intelligent discussions about America. I never hear this side on long-form popular podcasts.
Barbell on the opposite business leaders (which I enjoy listening to).
Love the show!
Fav’s – Arnold, Tony Robbins and Derek Sivers.
Would love to hear,
1.Warren Buffett
2.Garth Brooks
3.Mary Barra CEO of GM
4.Volodymyr Zelensky
5.Ronan Farrow
6.Elon Musk
—————-
Random Police officer
Random School teacher
Suggestions for living-legends:
Jeremy Mann – one of the greatest living artist
Jeff Watts – incredible artist and educator
Suggested experiment – interview them while they create a portrait of you.
Other option:
Andrew Skurka – someone who has found his “1,000 true fans” with a blog, even in today’s social media focused climate. No one knows the Sierra Nevada like this guy. He bridges the gap between Mountaineering and Hiking that few have managed to do and communicate.
Suggested experiment – take a walk somewhere deep in the Sierras before interview.
I recommend inviting Dr. Meghan Roekle for your 90/10 barbell strategy guest. Meghan Roekle, PsyD is the website. She focuses on coaching one’s fulfillment. Interesting bio/journey to arrive what she is doing now and I believe she is one and only to focus on fulfillment coaching.
Happy 10th anniversary sir!
I am a big fan of “The Tim Ferris Experiment” and all the ways you desconstruct hard stuff into simple manageable steps.
Is there a way to replicate that show on a podcast version?
Cheers from Colombia amigo
People who I think fit the 90/10 barbell strategy:
I have been pondering on your unique guests question and I think you and the community would be interested in Professor Lorimer Moseley.. Lives in Australia and has spent the better part of 30 years researching chronic pain – what is it and how we can build on our own understanding to recover not just manage it. I think it potentially has personal relevance to you maybe and something we can all learn more about for ourselves and our families. hes doing some great work in rural and regional communities centred around getting the message out there which I think would have some relevance to the work you are doing in mental health. He’s also just a really nice guy. All the other suggestions sound great too!
I’d love for you to interview Tim Minchin – likely meets your less than 10% requirement, but is also a master of his craft (comedic songwriting) and living legend. Plus I think you’d both nerd out over philosophy to the joy of listeners 😉
What would you like to see or hear on the podcast?
You’ve mentioned a few times that you’re thinking about starting a family.
I’ve noticed a gap in the podcast landscape for conversations specifically aimed at fathers and the unique challenges they face. While there are plenty of resources for mothers, many still approach parenting from a maternal perspective. For example, discussions often focus on emotional support for children, but fathers might benefit more from guidance on listening rather than offering solutions.
It would be fascinating to explore how fathers can improve their parenting skills. New dads face various issues, like attachment challenges, PTSD from childbirth, and feelings of being sidelined—yet these topics don’t get enough airtime.
From what I’ve seen, there are a few father-focused podcasts, but many are either outdated or don’t delve deeply into these important issues.
Imagine an episode dedicated to the “science and tools for becoming a better father.”
I genuinely believe that once you step into parenthood, you might naturally gravitate toward these discussions, but until then, you could really make a difference for those who are already on that journey.
These rules sound like a wonderful way to mix things up and got off the highway onto the dirt path winding through nature where you can truly stop and take in the beauty in the world. I’ll have to think about Who would be someone I would like to hear more from.
Interesting interview with a pillar of the software engineering community:
Jeffrey Dean, google’s chief scientist https://research.google/people/jeff/
Hi Tim- love the barbell metaphor! I’ve arrived here by way of a link that iamjif shared in TimTimFansFans. Just thought I’d drop in really quick with a friendly suggestion/request for guest interview that could perhaps pass the “10%” barbell approach: James Hoffman (youtube link). Humbly speaking, James is an all-things coffee person and a master of the craft. He’s definitely earned the credentials and accolades: Barista Champion (UK, World), author of The World Atlas of Coffee, maintaining an influential voice in the coffee industry/community/culture, and among many other things. I won’t lie, James Hoffman’s crossed my mind many times over when hearing your pod’s theme intro. And, not for nothing, wanted to take this opportunity to say I appreciate all that you’ve shared with your experiences, dabbling, tinkering, “blending”, and 5-bullet friday recommending of all the things around coffee over the years. Always a good time, thank you!
I have a few comments and suggestions. How about a walk in time with the Tim Ferriss Show? I’m really curious about how sponsorship has evolved for the Show in the past 10 years and, in an effort to help new podcasters, if there are any feasible projections as to what a new podcast can look forward to in terms of sponsorship over the next 5-10 years, what mistakes to avoid and where to double-down. It seems to align very well with the advice on acting on what you consider to be fun and easy, that is to say, balancing what you want to do with who is willing to help you monetize it. Also, I’d like to express a grievance, which is really another source of curiosity. What’s up with the Tim Ferriss Show not having any current sponsors from the cacao industry?
I love this because it gets back to your “scratch your own itch” way of approaching problems. A person I would have loved to hear more from is Tom Brown Jr. (Tracker, great books too), but unfortunately he just passed away. To scratch my own itch, interviews about archery/learning archery/improving archery, expert surfboard makers (Bing Copeland, Skip Frye, Gerry Lopez), K. Barry Sharpless (chemist, Nobel prize winner 2x), EJ Corey (chemist, Nobel prize winner), people working on paradigm shifts in education (school options for kids that can’t sit still/home schooling for those that are focused on bringing kids more exposure, not less/getting students disadvantaged students support when transitioning from HS to college level), Adrian Newey (F1 designer) are some that come to mind.
I’ve learned a lot from your conversations. Maybe that’s a good addition to your guiding future podcast principles. What do you want to learn more about?
While I doubt he’d do it, I’d love to hear you interview Bill Watterson of Calvin and Hobbes fame. The best of the best, he somehow resisted the urge to monetize his work. What an example.
Tim, you start your post with the quote about pausing and reflecting if you find yourself in the majority, but what about the 99% of your listenership who are in the majority, myself included? The kinda people that will never feature in your podcasts because they’re not a leader in their field, but are fascinated by and keen to learn from those those that are. In 2020 I wrote a book about what to do if you’re a ‘jack of all trades’, and a while back you came tantalisingly close to covering the topic in a short video on being a specialised generalist. There’s more than enough mileage for a podcast on this, and I guarantee I’m known to less than 10% of your audience :-).
As a guest, consider David Deida at deida.info
Only a bit before TF’s time he was actively exploring notions of personal development with an emphasis on masculinity that bubbled up in expressions such as the movie Fight Club; His contribution at that time was a book, The Way of The Superior Man, A bold title that delivered nicely. But his more enduring contribution has been with man/woman relationships and POLARITY, a word TF used in a recent interview in the same context. So, maybe he already knows this guy.
DD seems to be selectively active. I could see an interesting meeting of the minds, as his own searching and interests seem to parallel those of TF, with regards to the obvious one of polarity/mating, bjut perhaps more so on issues of personal evolution/growth.
I didn’t hear any announcements about your planned sabbatical. I did enjoy re-listing to some of the reruns, although, after a while, I was hoping to hear some of your new stuff again.
Now that you are back, I understand why, and I applaud you. I have been following you since the 4-hour workweek. Although I was already self-employed as a real estate agent, I was fascinated by your concept of “life hacks.” You may have invented the now widely used term.
Ever since it has been an interesting journey through your life. I came to understand that you were very careful about some of your personal details. When you began to talk about your girlfriend, I felt that that was a real turning point for you. When you stopped talking about her for an extended period of time, I started to get the impression that something had changed.
During all this time, I also went through changes. I got married to a beautiful opera singer that I met in Moscow. We later got divorced (we still are good friends), and life went on.
One thing that has always struck me is how confident and intelligent you are and yet suffer anxiety at things that involve public speaking or performing. I am the opposite of that. I was performing the Peppermint Twist for people when I was 5 years old. Not surprisingly, I started performing in a rock & roll band, first as a drummer and then as lead singer.
I have always hoped that, after all you have given to me, I could someday help you with your performance anxiety.
I’m glad the result of our sabbatical is to restructure your podcast and continue. As has been stated in most of the previous comments. Just keep talking!!!!!!
I like the idea of place based stories— so exploring an area or community that’s interesting to you and sharing that experience. For example, I went to a city in Japan that was all about pottery — I learned a lot of interesting stuff and heard some cool stories. You get yourself into interesting to you places and interview whoever you find and share the story. Maybe the writer’s room somewhere for example.
Dear Tim and team,
What a rich time of reflection and redirection for you. I feel grateful for your desire and commitment to interview the unknown 10% – those living elders whose medicine we need.
With your interest in trauma, healing, and relational neuroscience (in particular I’m thinking of your interviews with Dr. Sue Johnson, Tara Brach and Dr. Gabor Mate), I highly recommend Bonnie Badenoch. She’s a master therapist, the author of several books, including The Heart of Trauma, and a beautiful, wise teacher of interpersonal neurobiology. You mention Bonnie’s name in therapeutic circles, and people sigh – a palpable gratitude for Bonnie and her presence. She’s an excellent teacher – a synthesizer of many disciplines, modalities, and the latest research – and has also lived her own journey of healing from early developmental trauma.
Along with many others in the therapeutic arts, she’s reframing our understanding of addiction and the other ‘protectors’ who step in to preserve our functioning in the face of trauma. But most poignantly, Bonnie embodies what she teaches – being with Bonnie is like being received by the most gentle, compassionate, empathetic hands, who invites every part of you.
You can get a taste of Bonnie’s work in an interview with Tami Simon here, where Bonnie talks about The Myth of Self Regulation – [Moderator: YouTube link to “The Myth of Self Regulation,” on the Kevin Fitts channel redacted per embed policy.]
I think she’d have to much to offer your podcast.
I would suggest Ken Long of Tortoise Capital Management. Was career Army Teaches strategy at the Army Command School and trains traders. He has been doing this for 30 years and has some unique perspectives you might enjoy
I assume that what makes podcasting hard is the preparation. What if once a month, your staff chose a mystery guest for you to interview? Your staff could do some basic research and prepare questions for you if needed (ie. tell me about this bicycle incident you had when you were 7 years old).
This would keep it new and fresh for you (it would be your first time hearing the stories), less work for you and might create some fun deep dives that you didn’t anticipate.
To decrease the pressure, you could record a few of these every month and then only publish the favorites. Warn the interviewee that their interview might not get published. If nothing else, you got to meet a new human and they got to talk to Tim Ferriss!
Thanks for this post. I’ve heard you mention DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) on your podcast once or twice and think listeners might enjoy an interview with a DBT practitioner. I really enjoyed the interview you did with Richard Schwartz a few years ago, it actually had a pretty profound impact on me. I think bringing on a DBT practitioner could lend itself to a more experimental episode format for you too. Marsha Linehan, the founder of DBT, and Charlie Swenson, an MD and DBT psychiatrist, could be great guests. I’m a DBT therapist myself and would love to chat with Tim, but I’m probably too close to the 0% of popularity to make that work…
Thank you for this post, Tim! I appreciate how thoughtful you are about your next steps.
I am a long-time listener and would like to suggest someone amazing but relatively unknown (especially to cis/heterosexual audiences): ALOK Menon. ALOK is a trans activist and comedian who speaks like a philosopher (I have a PhD in philosophy and can vouch for their capacity to engage philosophically). They are very impressive and doing much to help people understand major concepts like change, death, beauty, and love in astonishing new ways for the 21st century.
More generally, there are many queer philosophers who are doing fascinating work on sex, gender, sexuality, and embodiment. Jack Halberstam is an interesting example.
Your show has been a huge part of my education in this life. I’m grateful for all you do!
My recommendation for an interview of someone who is absolutely world class and a total living legend, who is likely totally off the radar would be Freestyle BMX great Mat Hoffman.
He has a video game, he has an ESPN 30 for 30 episode, he invented a huge portion of what is modern freestyle BMX.
Yeah, I think he would be quite the unique guest, especially because he can be pretty entertaining as well.
I competed with him and consider him a friend.
That would be one hell of an interview!
JOhn
Many thanks for all the work and I hope you keep the podcast going because you interview better than most.
Here are some suggestions:
Tom Hardy – Actor
Brian MacKenzie from ShiftAdapt
Julien Pineau from Strongfit
Someone who has guided you threw some of your psychedelic experiences, even if you need to keep their identity anonymous.
Hi Tim and Team! Thanks so much for 10 years of my favourite long-form interview podcast!
People I would love to hear interviewed: Felix Baumgartner – the guy who sky dived from space after 5 years of training. He’s done surprisingly few interviews- would love a 2 hour Tim deep dive (while sky dive training… or actually skydiving? 😬)
Also, random one – Psy – the pop giant from South Korea who, while well known in the West for Gangnam style, is extraordinarily famous in Asia.
Also as a woman, some of my favourite and most memorable interviews you have done are with women outside of the self-development arena (thank you Margaret Atwood, Giuliana Furci, Catherine Hoke). Anyone 10+ on this list like that would be amazing: https://www.forbes.com/lists/power-women/
Gratitude again ❤️
Can you limit the use of “this episode is going to be different ” .
Thank you.
Sincerely Yours
Brent Williams II
Peace and Security out.
I would love to hear you interview close friends that nobody knows about. People who haven’t necessarily done notable things but are in your circle for a good reason and that you have a good connection with.
Podcast ideas on the 10% end of the barbell:
John Bachner (communication). bachner.com Great speaker and passionate about grammar!
John Wareham (A kiwi who gained wisdom from working as a volunteer in prisons in the US). a quote: “All prisons are mental prisons; they lock from the inside and you hold the key, so only you can let yourself out.” from How to Break Out of Prison
Sir Graham Dingle (Mountaineer with several first ascents around the world). More importantly started the Graham Dingle Foundation in NZ helping kids to get on the right path in life.
Hey Tim.. admire this new focus. If you’re interested in visiting & interviewing to a real Vidalia onion farmer (in south GA, USA), we’d love to host you. We could even host the interview in an actual field of onions (March/April, seen here: https://share.zight.com/yAueknzP). We’re family owned & operated, and also ship our Vidalias across the USA via online sales & UPS Ground shipping. If it’s not a fit, no worries, just thought we’d offer : )
Hi Tim,
I love the barbell strategy. My first suggestion is to look back at old episodes to find the most interesting guests and bring them back. 10% of guests are probably worth having on three times or more.
My living legend suggestion is Scott Rao. He’s written half a dozen books on coffee, help design the decent espresso machine, and founded (IMHO) the best roasting company on the planet, Prodigal.
Third suggestion is to look for people who have achieved things in retirement that they never did in their whole life before that. Two who come to mind are the woman who swam from Cuba to Florida at age 66, and Alex Honnold’s mother who became the oldest woman to climb El Capitan in her 60’s.
Last suggestion is to interview parents of famous people who have had their own interesting lives. As the father of a three year old, I want more parenting advice.
Keep up the good work!
William Shatner
Hey Tim,
I love the new rules. As a long time listener to TimTimTalkTalk I have always most enjoyed the episodes with living legends and people I’ve never heard of. The breadth of high quality information you provide is astounding and has helped me gain so many new perspectives on life. Thank you.
On the topic of living legends, I would suggest William ‘Red’ Whittaker from Carnegie Mellon University ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Whittaker)
His work in field robotics across the last few decades has been instrumental in building many of the robotics industries we see today (autonomous mining vehicles, automonous tractors, autonomous cars, robots for lunar exploration, robots for cleaning up nuclear waste). He is a personal inspiration, and I know he has been for many others as well. I believe he would be an excellent guest and his story is worth sharing. I would love to facilitate an introduction if you are interested.
Thanks again for the incredible inspiration and amazing resources you provide Tim.
Cheers,
Tenzin
90% guests:
• Mel Gibson
10% guests:
• Joel Salatin – Polyface Farms
• Brian Roemelle
I’ve hoped for more how-to style interviews with top class people, as outlined in 4 hour chef that can be a practical guide for someone learning that craft. T
he list of questions in the 4 hour chef, that can help someone break down and learn a new thing have been replaced with the tribes of mentors type philosophical questions which can be interesting but lack the specific knowledge and practical application most of the time, beyond leadership, mindset etc.
I’d love more episodes like the wine/whisky tasting episode with Richard Betts, the cybersecurity episode. Just really practical guides to getting into something new
I do believe all the ideas youve presented for your post They are really convincing and will certainly work Nonetheless the posts are too short for novices May just you please lengthen them a little from subsequent time Thanks for the post
I really love these new rules and the set up for future podcasts. Thank you for sharing w/ us! I love all you do around health and supplements and I’d love you to find a female counterpart who can speak to the same things for women. Exercise, food, protein, fasting, sleep, supplements all the things. I want to try many of the things you suggest and I find myself wondering if they are optimal for a female system? Thanks again for asking and listening!
Hi Tim!
Great rules. I wrote those down to periodically assess my life and priorities.
I’m curious about successful people OUTSIDE OF A US CONTEXT. These could be expats of course, but my thoughts are business in an emerging economy, politicians grappling with different challenges, or any other achievement or practice you see as significant or monumental practiced in a different cultural or political context.
Keep chasing what interests you!
LMNT has 400mg of sugar, hidden as ‘natural flavors’. I bought on your recommendation, now I’m throwing it out. Do not advertise for them!
I’d like to hear more from people who do things differently, whether that’s running a business, maintaining relationships, cooking or exercising.
Tim, thank you for sharing your journey and thoughts on creating meaningful, lasting content in a crowded space. I’m 71, and while I don’t host a podcast, I can relate to the “pause and reflect” moment. For decades, I’ve been successful in the tire business, in real estate, and, perhaps my greatest joy, in building one of the fastest-growing churches in Louisiana. I still manage real estate and pastor full-time, but in my mid-60s, I found a new passion for photography. Preaching, photography, and property have become the puzzle pieces of my time and life now.
Your insights about finding what fuels endurance resonate with me. Like you, I’ve found that doing what you love, even if unconventional, is the key to keeping the energy alive. Keep pushing forward, experimenting, and staying true to what keeps your heart in it. Thanks for inspiring us to make our unique mark in whatever field we’re in!
[Moderator: contact info redacted from public forum but preserved in intake form.]
Love the article but it’s the first one I had ever read!
P.S
Also this is the first time I have ever heard of you!
As usual carey, great and unique insight. I know of at least one podcaster who would benefit from this article. Also glad you added content to the Academy.
Hello Tim,
I’m a 90/10 (never been on a podcast and no one knows me yet). But I have been up to something lots of people find interesting even exciting. I think your audience might like it as well. Human DNA is incredibly valuable, and our work is to let people monitize it (for a change) using a smart contract and AI to help genetic research we also toss in some Defi to smash some global poverty. It would be great to speak to you.
Greg
Tim, these new podcasting rules are so valuable! I especially agree with the idea of keeping things fresh and constantly evolving. It’s easy to fall into a routine, but as you mentioned, the key is to stay relevant and continuously offer value to your listeners. Can’t wait to implement some of these tips! [Moderator: website URL redacted.]
Hi Tim Ferris, happy to read this. I’ve enjoyed watching your work evolve over the years. Just like anyone, you have struggles but somehow you manage to make it sustainable (“durable”). That’s what interests me, what’s the essence of things that last (for decades, for centuries…)? I was first introduced to your work when “the 4-H Chef” came out (gift from my brother). I left it at my other brother’s place for years and just now retrieved it and started reading it again as my life is very much slowing down. Reading your book is a bit of a time capsule, yes, but underneath the “circonstances” there are some long-lasting pillars of wisdom. It seems like you’ve been seeking both what brings you joy, and what challenges you, and therefore will endure. We struggle and we fight, yes, but life is a feast, a festival – otherwise, what’s the point, what are we fighting for? Thanks for being out there, thanks for the quality of what you offer. If you make it to the countryside of Quebec some day drop me a line, I’ll take you square dancing 🙂
Suggestion: guests who are mothers and have successful careers. Women (generally) carry more with the household division of labor, so I think it shows a particular drive and focus for them to achieve the level of success you like to showcase on the podcast. This isn’t to diminish others’ successes, just another cross-section you could explore. Dr. Becky Kennedy was a great guest who fits in here.
Huge fan of the podcast, excited to see what the future holds!
How about 1+1 = 1,000 Guests? Repeats, but those who haven’t been around in a while and are building their own impressive (maybe complementary) thing and have their own (not-totally-overlapping) audiences. Seems like getting Holiday or Willink in for a checkin with a “what I’m thinking about now” vibe could both prove interesting and generate solid value with intriguing tape.
Hi Tim, Lesley Everest of Motherwit Doula Care has a lot to share with the world… Her thoughts on falling asleep reminded me of you today… (“When it comes to high transition times, we tend to fare better when we are in states of high trust. Transitions are about traversing different brain wave states and undergoing significant physiological /psychological change. Feeling safe and connected (either with other people or with an internalized sense of security) helps us to traverse these brainwaves and achieve transformation optimally. Some examples are going to sleep, having a sexual experience, undergoing major life changes, giving birth, and dying.”) Birth doula, educator, business owner, interfaith minister, mother, cancer survivor… Lesley’s one-of-a-kind and communicates in a wonderful, clear, deeply embodied manner. Thanks for reading!
“When you’re inside the washing machine, it’s very hard to step out and get perspective.”
This is totally a quote that you would find in The 4-Hour Workweek. The Tim I crave the most is the one that experiments with things and shares his findings. I think some shorter versions of The Tim Ferriss Experiment where you show off something you’ve learned like how you trained your dog or a cooking hack would be cool.
Drew Baye. He has used his method to become a hell of a bodybuilder in his 50’s
Have you considered having Alex Jones, Hallow founder, as a podcast guest?
Christian meditation and prayer changed his life and he went on to build the biggest prayer app in history. It reached #1 overall in the App Store ahead of Instagram, YouTube, etc
Jack Canfield – He recently turned 80 and will be retiring this year.
Love listening to your podcast but would like a 30 min podcast that summarizes your podcast – like cliff notes !!! Like- the 5 bullet Friday emails. I would like to see more podcasts on the following topics.
The most exciting vacations you’ve ever been on. What sports do you love the best to play and a focus on Pickleball, which is taken over in every town across America
How do you keep yourself disciplined on a day-to-day basis when you have no accountability when you’re all by yourself what motivates you?
How do you create your perfect day? How do you allocate your time between books movies,Family, trave, work and managed to get it all done seamlessly.