“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
— Mark Twain
For nearly 15 years, I started almost every public presentation with the above quote. First and foremost, it was a reminder to myself. It still is.
Four score and 750+ episodes ago, I started a podcast.
In 2023, The Tim Ferriss Show crossed a billion downloads. This past April marked the 10th anniversary of the first episode. It seemed as good a time as any to pause and reflect.
Let’s kick it off with a weird graph and wild numbers:
The dip in 2022 is simply the resumption of pre-COVID trends, as 2020–2021 was an at-home anomaly. That said, the pandemic period saw some of the largest deals in the space, and it helped propel deal comps and mass media attention to new heights, a lot of which stuck around or at least heavily rounded up. The celebrities, the ad dollars, the gazillion-dollar exclusives, the controversies… It’s all been outrageously exciting to watch.
When I started my podcast in April of 2014, there were fewer than 200,000 podcasts listed on iTunes (as Apple Podcasts was called back then). At the time of writing this post, there are more than 4,200,000.
That represents a 20x+ increase, but there are other interesting metrics to ponder. Here’s one: bigger shows.
If we define a “bigger” show as any show with at least 100,000 downloads per episode, I would guess the total number of such shows has at least 100x’d. This is a massive paradox of choice and discovery issue. Having a good show is no longer good enough. Having a great show is no longer good enough.
If you want to survive in the mindshare of listeners, you need differentiation.
I think this is reflected in how well special-interest podcasts with a focus (e.g., The Drive with Peter Attia, Founders, Huberman Lab, Acquired) have done recently relative to newer interview-format shows where nearly anything goes.
As is so often the case, if you stand for everything, you can end up standing for nothing.
So, how do you differentiate yourself if every person and their grandma is starting a podcast?
If you’re starting from scratch, I think choosing a niche you have a bizarre love for—and therefore endurance for—makes a lot of sense.
If, on the other hand, you have a broader, interview-based legacy show, it can be a little tricky. Perhaps the business is great, but you see the writing on the wall and want to be ahead of the curve. As I see it, there are at least a few options:
(1) Start a new podcast with a niche focus. Sadly, I suspect I would get bored within weeks or months, but it’s not off the table…
(2) Pack up your tent and walk off into the sunset in search of other adventures.
(3) Create new and better rules.
I landed on #3.
In the midst of a weekly ship cycle, it’s hard to escape the collective pull of algo chasing, thumbnail tweaking, and details long enough to zoom out. The waters have been churning at a fever pitch, ever changing and ever faster. When you’re inside the washing machine, it’s very hard to step out and get perspective.
So I decided to take a sabbatical of roughly four months. It ended a few weeks ago.
During the sabbatical, I stopped recording new episodes, republished some of the greatest hits (e.g., Jamie Foxx, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Margaret Atwood, Jerry Seinfeld, and more), and did a lot of thinking.
The full break allowed me and my team enough breathing room to think about the long game. What do we want to do, and furthermore, why are we doing this at all?
Since nearly all the rules are made up anyway, I asked myself a bunch of questions, including:
What might this look like if it were maximally fun?
What might this look like if it were easy?
If I get to do this for another decade, or had to do this for another decade, what new rules might I create to keep it interesting?
Of course, these are implicitly “for me.” It’s a highly personal thing.
In my experience, keeping it interesting for me generally keeps it interesting for my lovely listeners. At the very least, it’s the only way to ensure I have the enthusiasm required for endurance.
Sure, sometimes what-Tim-likes is too strange and misses the mark, but trying to cater to the tastes of an abstract “audience” or the YouTube gods, without paying attention to what you like, has sent a lot of podcasts to the elephant graveyard.
And even if you manage to “win” that game, winning might be the most dangerous.
Rather than getting Old Yeller’d behind the barn, you have just enough income or traction or validation or growth to make it seem crazy to stop. How could you shut it down? Then you adjust to the creeping boredom and incremental gains, and you convince yourself that it’s all a cost of doing business. You start by feeding the machine through the cage, only to wake up one day and realize that you’re the one inside the cage. For an extreme example, read this article on audience capture, but it can take many forms. Some are very subtle.
Media is a great tool and a merciless master.
Fortunately, this is NOT how things need to be.
Based on all of the above, here are some new rules that I’ll be implementing starting today:
No more book-launching episodes.
The podcasting circuit has largely become the same authors appearing on 15–30 podcasts in any given week or two for book launches. It’s the modern equivalent of a radio satellite tour. For authors, I totally get it, but I’m over it, and I know a lot of my podcast friends are over it. It’s boring for everyone.
So, I’m opting out. No more book-launch episodes for a while.
If I make an exception, it will likely require that both of the following conditions are true:
– You’re a truly close friend, meaning we’ve known each other for at least 10 years, we’ve stayed at each other’s homes, see each other multiple times a year, etc.
AND
– The episode will come out a minimum of three months before the book’s publication date. Early can be a great strategy for authors. This is exactly what I’ve done with past guests like Jocko Willink, who made his first-ever podcast appearance (in fact, first public interview) on The Tim Ferriss Show in September of 2015. I suggested we publish well before his pub date because this space would allow his publisher to gauge pre-order demand and substantially increase the initial print run. His first book, Extreme Ownership, hit the New York Times bestseller list, and the rest is history. Even one month is quite tight if overseas printing is involved, and sadly, a lot of podcasters don’t respect embargos (crabs in a bucket!), so… at least three months in advance it is.
90/10 barbell strategy for future guests.
The barbell strategy is an approach to investing popularized by past guest, author, and self-described flâneur Nassim Nicholas Taleb.
The metaphor of the barbell is apt because weights are placed at the far ends. In the investing context and in simple terms, the majority of your assets might be in very conservative positions with the remaining assets in very high-risk, very high-reward bets. For instance, municipal bonds and angel investing. The middle is empty.
But how could you apply this to a podcast? It’s actually very easy. Just look for extremes. I apply the barbell approach all over my life and business.
In the case of The Tim Ferriss Show, I will aim to interview guests who are either:
Known by more than 90% of my audience (e.g., Jeff Bezos, Steven Spielberg, Oprah Winfrey)
Or
Known by less than 10% of my audience (e.g., some of my favorite past episodes, like Dr. BJ Miller, Boyd Varty, Dr. Sue Johnson, or Elan Lee)
I’m trying to avoid the messy middle, which is a Tokyo subway car of repeat guests on the circuit. It’s crowded, and I don’t like crowded. Cue The Blue Ocean Strategy.
Prioritizing living legends.
I love people who’ve mastered a craft and who seldom—or never—do podcasts.
I really enjoy interviewing masters who’ve produced excellence decade after decade. This often means such people have some gray hair, and I would love to celebrate them and immortalize their wisdom while they’re still sharp. The last person holding a tradition, the 10th generation of X, a reclusive genius… you get the idea.
Experimental hyperdrive.
I’ve experimented a lot on the show in the past, and I’m going to put that into hyperdrive. It’s simply more fun.
I have done podcasts in saunas (e.g., Rick Rubin’s first-ever podcast), live Q&As, walk-and-talk episodes in the mountains, drunk-dialing fans for shits and giggles, interviews in taxis in Uzbekistan, audiobook excerpts, and more. It’s easy to assume that slick, labor-intensive, polished episodes get the most downloads, but it’s simply not true. And much more important, the experimentation keeps things fun and fresh. After all, I still consider this the early days for podcasting. Less than one-third of terrestrial radio ad spend has landed in podcasting thus far, and there’s lots of room left to innovate and make strange things work.
If you only stick with what has worked, you might miss something that works a whole lot better.
So, if you want to listen to one podcast that delivers a variety of fun stuff in a variety of formats, that’s the next chapter. Maybe I should rebrand as The Tim Ferriss Variety Show… or make a mobile-only TimTim WalkWalk? That last one is for the oldies.
So, let’s get this party started.
I’ll continue to add to these policies and this blog post, but in the meantime, I would love your suggestions:
What would you like to see or hear on the podcast?
Are there any experiments that would tickle your fancy? Or podcasts or formats I should see for inspiration?
Any guests that fit the 90/10 barbell strategy? Living legends?
Other thoughts or suggestions?
Please let me know in the comments below! Comments here are far better than social media, as I’ll actually see them. And thanks for reading this far.
All the best to you and yours,
Tim
P.S. If you haven’t already, you can subscribe to The Tim Ferriss Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you find your audio niblets.
Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.)
Tim, new rules sound perfect.
Living legend, Warren Buffet.
Hello Tim and Team!
1. I truly respect your genuine approach. Remain true to yourself.
2. I think one reason your interviews are successful that maybe not many comment about is that you actually listen to the interviewee rather than keep talking yourself/imposing your own opinions and you are great at asking the right questions. They reflect true interest and genuine desire to learn and be inspired.
3. I love your books (Tools of Titans & Tribe of Mentors, the rest is on my to read list too!)
4. The variety you offer is inspiring.
Any guests that fit the 90/10 barbell strategy? Living legends?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malin_Ewerl%C3%B6f-Krepp
Not sure if this fits your criteria 🙂 you decide!
Yes (suggested this before), there is a mine of knowledge to learn from Swedes and a lot of peculiarities too (if you have not read this, then please do. I read it after I experienced the stuff first hand, so it is not stereotyping :p):
https://www.amazon.com/Almost-Nearly-Perfect-People-Scandinavian/dp/1250081564
Tack tack!
Tamy
Awesome, I’m so glad the podcast will continue! For me your podcast is an opportunity to be a fly on the wall in conversations of people who – broadly speaking – I aspire to be like. People who inspire me. Your concept of “lifestyle design” really stuck with me, and I have been trying to build a life I love for the last 10 years.
I want to hear how you and your guests think, what you talk about, how you spend your time, how you look at the world, how you think about business, health, mental health, happiness, science and all of that.
I like the new approach with the either well known or more unknown guests. I’m confident you will find amazing people to interview. I can’t wait. To the next 10 years…!
Great post Tim! I would love to come to New York and do an episode with you in and out of an ice bath, experimenting with ways of being. I was on Cal Fussmans pod but have been on very few. I work with some of the best athletes on the planet.
Great post! I second (third?!) the folks suggesting that guests can be “regular people.” For example, I’d love to hear interviews with different people – from disparate regions of the country – who are working hard and earning maybe not-quite-enough to get by. Perhaps it could be co-hosted by someone like Stephanie Land or Barbara Ehrenreich. We could all stand to have our eyes opened a little wider.
great strategy. I would not have any less from you Tim to reinvent yourself in this crowded world of podcasting. I am subscribed to 5 podcasts and yours is the one that I listen 80% of the episodes (those that I skip tend to be business oriented).
new formatting could be: monologue on a topic (well research with your personal interpretation of the literature); Q&A episodes with specific topic like movies, books. authors, travel destinations.
Love your work! I like how you keep surprising me with incredible people, insights, and products. Often time I don’t even read the description of the episode, just play as I’m sure I’ll have a fun ride.
Fewer “bro” discussions of what it was like to have sex in Paris – especially the bro discussions that are accompanied by alcohol, because it doesn’t make anyone as clever and charming as they think they are. In general, the boy-only discussions I find intensely dull. Your guests can be male and think about issues other than how to maximise the size of their biceps. I loved the interview with Boyd. You are a very deep interviewer. Just stay away from the biceps-and-money discussions and think about issues beyond the well-being of the 35 year-old male, because they take up far too much space in all of our brains as it is.
Amazing comments so far, reading as I have my second cup of fear, and I’ll echo the sentiments of appreciation and encouragement for what you’ve done and what you’re about to do!
1. I love the “regular” people angle. It would take effort, but maybe 1-3 a year. The Real Ones podcast is a great example of this.
2. Living legends who invented something enduring or are always evolving:
Steve Martin
Lorne Michaels
David Letterman
Jon Stewart
(Yes, all entertainment industry but the way you ask the unexpected questions, these would be fascinating)
3. The other end of barbell
Someone mentioned David Whyte and I’ll second that!
Yes, David Whyte!
I’m hesitant to pipe in here as I am a strictly a behind the scenes, 90%-under-the-radar person who has worked for over 50 years in – “how can/do we connect?’ For 25 years I coached professional actors, then decided non actors really needed to know such things as how to “move,” “lead” “connect” with an audience, not to be inauthentic but to understand the ecosystem of bodies via what I called “embodied empathy.” I segued to coaching business leaders, spent ten years coaching TED Main Stage Speakers (not you, but BJ. Susan Cain- amongst so many others, Please feel free to ask them. Susan even log-rolled for my book PLAY THE PART)
Why am I poking my head up at this stage in my career? From decades of working with highly successful leaders, many quite brilliant, I’m only more convinced that our disembodied culture – even for those who are devoted to “working out” – is, at root, a key contributor to the ills of disengagement, rage, feeling victimized, etc. Inspired by your spirit of “fun,” similar to how you did ”Family Systems” work w/ Richard Schwartz, I’d love to “play” with you – demonstrate using games – improv, movement, posture, breath and voice work. If you’re open to it 😉 I think people would take wonderful tips/tools away from it.
Tim,
I’m a retiree Spanish person who have been listening to your excellent podcasts for years. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you very much for your effort and excellent work.
Thanks
.
Hi Tim, this makes so much sense and wonderful for your next phase. I may be an atypical listener/fan.
What would you like to see or hear on the podcast? Passionate people who want to change lives. What they’ve dedicated their lives to making happen. You are such a great interviewer, Tim, and draw the best from everyone. Find the best.
I’m an older female, so the younger, bro, get-rich-today, weight lifter, body hacker is not my scene. Bring the wisdom, Tim, bring the wisdom. Looking in the rear view mirror of life (me) — it’s those things that last. See some ideas below.
Any guests that fit the 90/10 barbell strategy? Take a look at the folks at Zoe (Zoe.com). ( This is revolutionary. their mission is ” to enable people to live healthier and happier lives by helping them to understand and optimise their responses to food. My food world is totally transformed).
Living legends? I love this woman who understands how trees are our saviors. Diana Beresford-Kroeger is a world recognized author, medical biochemist, botanist and climate change visionary. Beresford-Kroeger was educated by her Irish elders who instructed her in the Brehon knowledge of plants and nature.
Other thoughts or suggestions? In essence — Stick with transformation. From whomever / whatever. is the best. My favorite work you’ve done is with the woman and the mushrooms, the value of psychedelics, I can’t remember their names, sorry. I may be biased (well I am) — it seems the deeper thinkers have been women and there are far too few as your guests.
You’ve done the money, Tim. Now do the heart.
Love your work, Tim, love your work.
Kathleen
Your new podcast rules are interesting, I’m looking forward to listening to your new episodes.
Paul Akers could make a good podcast guest meeting your barbell rule. He’s a fanatical expert on “Lean” thinking and has published several books available for free on his website.
It would be great to hear more high performers in the athletics space, especially those who’ve thrived for decades like Laird Hamilton. Additionally, maybe some consistently high performing Olympic athletes.
If you’re looking to go super niche, I might know a guy who’s a 7x World Champion (going for number 8 this October) skydiver who’s 50 years old, has been in the sport for over 30 years and has accumulated close to 27,000 jumps 😉
Keep up the great work! I’ve been a fan since you started the podcast!
When you share the questions YOU are asking yourself, the world shifts a little on its axis (in the best way). Thank you for always putting your full self into what we get to learn and for asking the questions others don’t. I can’t wait to see how the new ride works! Living legends is my favorite on the list. Use your access to bring what we can’t or don’t get anywhere else.
Suggestions –
1. Interview regular people running or starting businesses and “coach” them in real-time? Basically, angel investing without the investing. Follow-up episodes to see how they did. Basically the TF experiment on your podcast.
2. Gymnastics edition while you attempt to do ring tricks while asking questions or between questions?
3. A series of you learning and mastering something new and your approach. You rarely talk about this but a breakdown of how you learn or how the people you admire best learn would be fascinating to see in real time.
This sounds exciting. Now that you don’t interview authors I have missed the boat with my book 🙂 ‘A Metaphysical Conversation with Rudyard Kipling: on Writing, the Afterlife and the Spirited Human’ (which I think you would find interesting, if I may say so) – so … I would love to hear more interviews and conversations on spirituality and personal stories of connection to the divine and mystical and joyful encounters, especially in relation to creativity and healing.
Love your new direction, especially, the 90/10 strategy. Speaking of the 10%, in an episode with Brene’ Brown, you said something about having a kid who “can kick you in the nuts.” Laine Lapinsky, an extraordinary parenting coach, specializes in helping parents with that type of kid. She’s been doing it, without ego or fanfare, for years. A woman on a mission to help! She’d be a great guest – brilliantly able to talk about raising tough kiddos. Thanks for your awesome podcast and other offerings.
If you mean Laine Lipsky I agree wholeheartedly. Laine is amazing – a true master and so relatable.
Oh my! I was so eager to recommend Laine Lipsky that I spelled her name wrong. It’s Laine Lipsky (not Lapinsky.) She would be amazing.
I already wrote a comment to propose Robert Fritz, who wrote the Past of Least Resistance (best seller in the 90s) and inspired MIT Peter Senge’s fifth discipline. One of his latest books is Identity with the subtitle “why it doesn’t matter what you think about yourself”. Averse to Marketing, very innovative, creation oriented, 81 now, still very good and never on major podcast. If you contact him, say hi for me. Greg, from Paris.
Hi Tim,
Thank you for the update. Your new policies are great.
Please continue with the Random Show. It’s always fun to hear you and KR catch up and share new tools, and ideas etc.
I’d like to hear more of Naval, Balaji and alike. They are unique and special at the same time.
Thank you
Monty
My 2¢ on Potential Guest or FLUSH : )
Brandon Sanderson
Self Published – BackerKit, GoFundMe
Took on Amazon/Audible for better deal for authors
<10%
I’ve been a listener for a long time. Probably one of the first Podcasts I ever listened to (not that I wrote it down, so I’ll stick with probably). I listened to your recent ‘random show’ about this, toying with the topic & I just thought…maybe, just maybe, how ‘tennis’ has formed the blueprint for so much more in performance (a little obtuse). All science, all data. We’re talking reduced injury onset (think parents wit h kids who play sport and how this drastically helps change a child’s longevity in play), actual ‘how to’ become the best in the world (again, backed by data). There is more. So I was compelled to chime in (hence this ‘comment’). Topics from relationships to communication are included.
Saying ‘tennis’ may be a turn off. But it’s just so much more. And it falls under the 10% (& it’s never been shared publicly previously). And given that this was perhaps ‘the’ first Podcast I tuned into, there’s a little full circle moment here so either way, I had to reach out.
Thanks so much Tim & I’m looking forward to seeing how things unfold.
Ashley
Tim, love your new rules. Like David Bowie, always reinventing yourself;)
For the 90/10 barbell strategy, I suggest you interview Jan van Hövell, founder of KLABU. Maybe (hopefully for him;)) he’s become too big too pass the 10% test, but his club serves such a fantastic purpose, that he would definitely deserve your airtime.
Alternatively, Rutger Bregman, who launched the school for moral ambition a while ago.
Someone who’s an expert on childbirth in America would be great. It’s a very broken system but there are some incredible women that have been trailblazing and protecting this rite of passage, including Ina May Gaskin, Rebecca Dekker, and Britta Bushnell. Birth (and Death, but that’s another podcast) is something we all experience yet mostly get wrong in our culture. So it’s not that niche really, but also not talked about enough! I know you have mostly a male audience so there would also be ways to talk about this that empowers men to help navigate their needs at this time, as well as how to trust navigate the system along side their partners. PS- I used to be a childbirth educator but now I’m a mental health therapist, specializing in birth trauma among other things. I love your podcast and have been touched and inspired by the mental health aspects in just about every episode I’ve listened to!
First off – great rules. I’ve gotten so jaded on the constant book launch interviews.
I have a suggestion – a person I just discovered myself. Francois d’Haene is both a living legend and definitely unknown to 90% of your audience. He just won the Tor des Geants, one of the craziest endurance events in the world. He is one of two 4-time winners of the UTMB, the most prestigious and competitive ultra in the world. The other, is Kilian Jornet, who is amazing, but you can find interviews with him everywhere and I would guess 11% of your audience knows who Kilian is.
Francois has done this while working a job as an award-winning winemaker. But above all, he has an amazing philosophy of life – his approach to exercise, family, racing, performance, eating, joy is just incredible. And he does not have a book.
I had seen his name in race results but knew nothing about him until I listed to a Rich Roll podcast interview with him from a couple years ago. It is one of the very very few podcasts that I immediately listened to for a second time (I think the *only* one ever actually).
I would give him a 100% recommendation for the Tim Ferriss show except he does have a noticeable French accent (enough so that the captions for the Rich Roll podcast are totally wrong half the time). But I did not find his accent difficult and I found the content just incredible. If I could meet one athlete (or “celebrity” though I don’t know as he is really a celebrity), he would be my choice (sorry Tim). I would love to hear a second long-form interview with him, because I haven’t found others. For a total legend in sport, he is completely under the radar outside the insular world of ultrarunning.
This suggestion falls into the 10% category and also aligns with the Mark Twain quote – I think Yogi Aaron would be a great podcast guest. Like Tim and many other people, I’ve struggled with chronic low back and hip pain and tightness. Luckily, I stumbled upon Yogi Aaron’s teachings which turned many things I thought I knew about how our bodies work on their heads. I’ve learned a lot about muscle function from him and now understand that the best way to prevent pain and injuries and improve mobility is by making sure that muscles are strong and activated and not by stretching passively. Stretching (and foam rolling, etc.) feels good and can help with pain/tightness in the moment, but I’ve learned that it’s just a band-aid and doesn’t address the root of the problem. Once key muscles such as the transverse abs and the psoas are working properly and able to do the jobs they were meant to do, our joints are much better protected from injury. Also, other muscles that have been picking up the slack can then relax, which relieves tightness and improves range of motion. Stretching is so embedded in our culture in yoga and other exercise modalities, physical therapy, etc. I’m so grateful to Yogi Aaron for helping me think outside the box – it forever changed the way I practice and teach yoga and back/hip pain is no longer an issue for me. For those of you who practice yoga, Aaron has studied yoga extensively and has a profound understanding of the true purpose of yoga (which has nothing to do with being flexible).
If you’re interested in experiencing the benefits of activating your muscles, as a starting point I highly recommend Yogi Aaron’s 7-Day Neck Pain Relief series, available on YouTube. I think this series would benefit just about everyone. The daily practices are 20 minutes at most. Day 1 mostly involves lying down with rolled towels under your neck and low back to encourage healthy curvature of your low back and neck. It’s super relaxing and a good one to do before bed. The other 6 days involve gentle exercises to strengthen and activate the muscles supporting the neck. See how your neck feels after doing all 7 days!
Hope this helps Tim and any of you who experience chronic pain.
Hi Tim, thanks for all the great episodes over the years, they’ve been really enjoyable. Here’s a fun idea for a podcast: get a famous guest on, and avoid talking about what they’re famous for. For example, you could get Buzz Aldrin on and NOT mention the moon landings. It would be surprising, revealing about their personalities and I find that trivial questions often turn out to be important. It could also be a commercial disaster, but at least it’s a bit different!
Would love to hear more interview with fiction authors. It doesn’t have to be related to book launches. Just look for those with a fantastic backlist who have done it time and time again. Like, I’d love to hear you interview Brandon Sanderson, Stephen King, etc. But, as you wrote, also less known authors who have still managed to do something wonderful. They might even be more fun to listen to, those who are in the trenches and working on their craft day in and day out.
The old stories versus the current ones.
Anyway. Been listening since episode 1, and look forward to listening to episode 1500 🙂
Excited for this next chapter. One additional thought: I really loved the recent episode of another podcast that you platformed. It wasn’t your podcast, but when I read the title, “What Happens When Israelis and Palestinians Drink Ayahuasca Together?,” I immediately thought “classic Tim” and pressed play. The episode delivered and then some. I trust your curation of other podcast episodes that are truly head turning for you, and would press play again if this became a more regular thing.
Judy Faulkner (Epic) or Bill Linton (Promega & Usona) – let’s get some Wisco energy into this!
I actually like book-launching episodes. I will never be able to read every book that sounds interesting, so those interviews are a great substitute.
Love this Tim. I’d love to see a podcast you do while hiking, or even better, while surfing. Obviously I’d be happy to be your guinea pig and be part of the known by less than 10%, but I think with anyone it’d be fun, especially if the terrain is awe evoking or even sketchy at times. I am also all for the old people. I just recorded a podcast with a grandma was has 9 Guinness Records for long distance swimming.She’s unsponsored, uses maple syrup from her own tree with water in lieu of gels or manufactured bars, and cross trains by gardening, bee keeping and caring for her grandkids. She has no problem not sleeping because she was a nurse and a mom.
Tim, if you’re looking for someone to interview that probably none of your listeners know, I’d recommend myself! I’m a public school teacher (22 years) who operates differently than most educators. I think we could have a fun conversation!
Tim, you need to interview Beau Miles, he is a talented story teller, endurance athlete and adventurer and you both seem to share a similar zest for life. He would no doubt be game for an interesting style of interview.
Tim—love the way you’re switching things up. Your podcast is great and I’d love to see you do it for a long time.
I’ve particularly enjoyed your episodes focusing on the natural world and would love to hear more. It’s such a critical issue and one often neglected in the tech world.
I’ve always had an itch (but not the requisite skill set) to start a podcast that shines a light on brilliant and extraordinary people that you’ve never heard of. Example: my uncle Willie Gray was a social worker in Northern Ireland during the 80s and 90s. He was fearless, alternative, incredibly bright and funny, a gifted storyteller and loved by everyone he knew. Professionally, he was a life-changer. I’ve heard multiple people talk about his influence on them, and how his intervention as a social worker gave them the strength to keep living. This is a man who saved many lives and pulled so many from real darkness. But also, he was just my uncle Willie. Alzheimers took him from us too young and we miss him hugely. I wish people were more open (or willing) to recognise the extraordinary qualities of people who aren’t famous – who accomplish great things and whose lives could inspire others and teach us how to bring true value to the world. Someone like you could help tell those stories in a way they would never get heard otherwise.
Will be listening, whatever you do next!
Suggestion: Teach. Hey Tim. Id love to see a podcast or podcast series where you teach someone something. Whether it was a classroom of kids or just an average listener it would be neat to see you take a skill and teach someone to a high level in a short amount of time.
I would love see you interview Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn!
Living (near dead so hurry up) Legend Suggestion:
– Burt Rutan (super freak and greatest aerospace engineer alive)
– Noam Chomsky (legacy and mostly unknown by people)
– Jim and Jamie Dutcher (wild stories on first scuba gear and wolves)
All are 10% and legends,
Format suggestion- pick a random ass mining town, stay for a week, set up a live show with locals only in a dive bar. Live stream the whole damn thing on YouTube but do not promote it. When I say mining town I mean a place where men ride three wheelers, skin bears, shoot guns, and fight in bars. The stories in those places are legendary! Wallace, Idaho is my suggestion or somewhere similar. I know of a few spots.
1) Russell M. Nelson. He just turned 100 years old. He was a world renowned heart surgeon. He helped build the first heart-lung machine and perfomed the third ever open heart surgery. He is currently the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He checks off many of your priorities.
2) Porter Stansberry would be a tremondous guest.
If you had an episode educating people about adult autism that would add value to my life.
Be great to interview Clint Eastwood
Are you going you film a show out on your elk hunt. I just got back from a CO 5 day bivy hunt as well.
Fan since 2007
It doesn’t always need to be long form. Long form takes such an investment of time it’s hard to get motivated for (unless the content is super compelling)
Love the strategy – your podcast truly lives up to the model of evergreen content, and this certainly sounds like a reinforcement of that idea.
Recommended guest: Iain McGilchrist – while he’s been on some podcasts, he’s little known and truly expert in his field with plenty of fascinating ideas.
Keep up the excellent work, it’s invaluable to have such talent directed at mining and sharing the knowledge you do.
Tim, love the podcast! And the new framework. I’m of an age where I have given your books to my son (19) who is starting a business and is a weight lifter. I’m sure you have many listeners his age and if not, they should be!
P.S. I’ve suggested Dr James Hollis before as a guest – I’d love to see him interviewed by you.
Wendell Berry comes to mind for possible interviewees meeting legend status that rarely do interviews. From what I hear, it’s relatively easy to meet him, but I imagine getting him to record a podcast may be extremely challenging.
Well done mate, again. Your commitment to travel the uncharted has been / still is very exciting. Thanks so much for sharing your path.
I am selfishly *so happy* that you are choosing to opt out of the book launch-type podcast. An idea for a new style could be a ‘local legends’ approach – the ‘regular’ people who are making an awesome impact in their community in (insert random/obscure area here). May take more up-front research from your team to find them, but would be awesome to highlight the goodness that is already happening in the world 🙂
I’d love to hear from some of the poker legends that don’t do too many interviews. Phil Ivey, Barry Greenstein, Erik Seidel etc. even the controversial Howard Lederer would be super interesting. I would have said Doyle Brunson but sadly he passed recently. I’m sure your friend and former guest Liv Boeree could make some introductions.
There would be a great mix of elite people with elite talent, crazy gambling/life stories, and actionable tips for strategy of life and decision making.
For the known by less than 10% camp, Coach Bill Courtney from the Oscar-winning documentary Undefeated.
I think it would be incredible to interview folks like Jake Hanrahan and Gary Stevenson. These are people that would cue into that 10% area. Maybe a bit less to be fair, but incredibly interesting individuals that are in touch with the less fortunate born people on our planet. And bands could be very cool, ones that are on the edge. Show Me The Body comes to mind. I know these are a bit on the ‘edgy’ side one might say, but they are incredibly talented people, and very good at what they do.
out of the box podcast ideas -interviews while skydiving or horseback riding, or laying on the floor with your eyes closed.
The architect and biologist, Neri Oxman, would be the perfect guest for your show imo. Fascinating individual who’s done some truly outside the box work.
I have stopped listening to the podcast as I am now typically not able to sit for a long format anymore. I know I can start and stop but having perceived smaller bites (podcast split into three parts half hour each as an example) would definitely get me to listen again. Hope that helps as I love your stuff
Hey Tim – I’ve been following you for a few years and admire everything you do. This pivot on your podcast format is just another example of your willingness to always put yourself out there and try new things. I look forward to the episodes that will come.
On a different note, I’ve had Tools of Titans on my shelf for a couple of years, but I finally started reading it a couple of weeks ago. And I love it.
One idea that keeps coming to my mind is a 2nd Edition to Tools of Titans that compares the tools, tips, tricks, routines, habits of everyone interviewed from the 1st Edition, to now.
I know I find that my routines and habits always change. I might workout every day, but how I train (endurance, strength, hypertrophy, yoga) changes as the months go on. And I suspect that for most of the people interviewed, their rules and habits might have shifted over time.
For the average person trying to figure out what they should be doing, I think understanding that there is no one solution, and it’s okay for it to change over time, is important.
Just something I’ve been thinking about and wanted to share. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you Tim for the post and all those wonderful podcasts. I dont think I have missed one since you started. I have learn so much. You have also been a priceless ‘companion’ on many long bike rides (cycling the lenght of Africa and from Japan to Germany).
A phenomenal guest would be the South African/Swiss Explorer-aventurer Mike Horn. He is funny, witty, ultra-smart, has grey hair, and has done some of the most extreme adventures of the last few decades. He is recognized as one of the greatest aventurer/explorers on our times. I dream of you interviewing him.
Looking forward to all the new episodes.
Merci beaucoup
Thank you for consistently putting out great work, and am excited for the new changes!
Here’s some that might fit the barbell strategy: Rick Moranis, Andrew Lloyd Webber or Ted Elliot. Bit of a film & theater buff, cheers! 🤘😄
Well done Tim. Keep going.
🙂
Tim,
A friendly suggestion! I would love to hear you interview Jonny Greenwood. He’s the lead guitarist of Radiohead, (in my opinion) the most boundary-pushing band of all-time, composed the soundtracks for There Will Be Blood, Phantom Thread, and The Master, and is a part of a brilliant documentary Junun.
Best,
Colin
P.S., Thom Yorke (lead singer of Radiohead) would probably check all these boxes too!
Thank you for this post and I’m very much looking forward to the next 10 years!
First: I love the “No more book-launching episodes” rule. Some of these guests appearing 5-6 times in my Apple Podcasts feed in less than one month (with the same topics!) actually made me unsubscribe quite many shows. Fortunately not yours, because your interviews were usually by far the best ones.
Second: Hearing more guests from outside the US would be great. The Korean episode was amazing, for example. I guess you know a few very interesting folks in Japan or China? Or maybe Antarctica? 🙂
Living Legends: Serena Williams – her husband is a bit well known (wink, wink)
Format: Hot ones – so much fun chatting while experimenting with foods
Interview the Dalai Lama
You’ve paved the way for a style of podcast that is truly unique and that anyone who’s read this has loved, and I can’t wait to see what you have coming up for us 😉
Some things I find interesting personally at the moment (and you may not) is finding small business owners, local shops and the likes, who’ve done something outstanding with their marketing or customer experience, and sharing their thinking and strategies to the world, and most especially other local shop owners struggling to keep their shop open in the midst of internet giants.
I’m sure whatever you do, it will be most interesting to follow.
Thanks for the good times !
set aside space to do deep dives like multi part series on a topic like the way hardcore history or huberman lab has the 1-6 part coverage of topics. those are awesome and if you pick a topic that is the specializing that makes you bored, you can just complete it in a super-series and then move along. i vote for a deep dive on permaculture… but thats just my interest
Love it Tim. You teased it in the random show and when I heard it it sounded just right. Looking forward to the Uber popular and the obscure. And knowing you the obscure will often times be the most inspiring.
Then again someone like Hugh jackman was absolutely phenomenal. Mainly because he is an a lister but had sooo much depth. Felt like he fitted both ends of the barbell.
Either way I can’t wait to hear more from you. But don’t worry about posting super frequently and make sure that you’re having fun. Then we will too 🙂
Oh and P.S. a friend of mine (living between Amsterdam and Ibiza) might just be a great fit for how you describe your ideal woman. This is her Instagram
[Moderator: IG link to @ fleurvosse redacted per embed policy.]
Media has been fixated on the issue of human trafficking. It is a bi-partisan issue that everyone is against but no one can accurately articulate.
The popularity of Sound of Freedom, followed almost immediately by the fall of its subject, Diddy, R. Kelly, and Epstein, are all national stories that are misunderstood. These stories get all the attention, create conspiracy theories, but ignore a larger problem that is far more invasive.
If you were able to get the correct people in the room you could cut through the myths and misconceptions surrounding a complex issue.
Glad the podcast will continue. I would love a deep dive in regards to the future of K-12 education. Are there innovative schools, scholars, maybe countries teaching our youth differently. Along the same lines is college. What is the future of the 4 year degree? Thank you for the journey the past 10 years.
Oh hell yea! Experimental Tim is a POWERFUL Tim. Larry Gagosian would be astounding. The New Yorker profiled him in 2023, “Money On The Wall: How Larry Gagosian Reshaped The Art World.” He’s today’s Joseph Duveen, living on Long Island, with Picasso’s last painting hanging above his fucking bed! Art Critic Jerry Salz would be fun, he speaks publicly often. Let’s take a left turn. Teddy Roosevelt AKA “The Bull Moose” once shook 8,510 peoples’ hands in 3 hours: 45 handshakes per minute. I don’t know how you would get, let alone manage, that many handshakes. Maybe offering $100k prize and somehow keeping people from cheating, or just keeping the cheating to a manageable level. But just imagine filling Madison Square Garden or Red Rocks, CO for a live event, but actually shaking every single persons’ hand. Woah.
Robert Duvall
I don’t know if you had Gary Vaynerchuk on previously, but he makes a great guest!!
I think I’ve tweeted this before, but a 90/10 person would love to see on your show would be George Stroumboulopoulos. While 90% of your Canadian fans would likely know him from his TV broadcasting career, music VJ days, and his name, globally he’d fit the 10%. Your style of questions and interviewing style really put me in mind of him. Both master-level interviewers sitting down to talk literature, travel, music, and life in the spotlight, people you have both interviewed well (Margaret Attwood etc) … would instantly become a fan favourite! Maybe you guys do it in a cold pluge tank or on a walk in the desert? I kinda would really like to see the tables turned and have a part 2 with him interviewing you Tim… or maybe he drops in on a random show – you’d both hit it off I’m sure. Thank you for the past 10 years – here’s to the next 10. Cheers
Tim, my best barbell idea is to do “remote” podcasts live and find some interesting locations (mountains, bars, unique home offices…
Tim, I am glad you are going in new directions with your show. I, and probably most people, are suffering from information overload, and don’t need any more info, tips, advice, books, or even how to turn our work life into a four hour week, no disrespect. There there is the worldwide issue of attention deficit. I have the perfect guest for your 10%.Me! I can speak warmly and wisely about anything that has to do with transformation, human development, and relationships, and I can do it in rhyme, in song, with humor and wisdom combined. I was once a professional improv stand up comic turned transformational teacher, and although I have authored four books, I would not mention one of them. I am a JOY promoter, nothing else. I promise it would be the most fun you and your listeners would ever have. Please check out my bio at [Moderator: Link to Scott Songs dot com redacted per embed policy.]
I love this new iteration! I feel excited to hear your new intro and what that will sound and feel like. I highly recommend Gay and Katie Hendricks as guests together. They are relationship masters, authored bunches of books including Conscious Loving and the Big Leap. They may veer towards the messy middle but their teachings are incredible and their mission is fantastic. More and more of their body of work is free on their FoundationForConsciousLiving.com
Funny, accessible, and real they help take the sting out of the messiness of relating.
Person to interview: Dr Lori Peek, head of University of Colorado’s natural-hazards program (they also do research into manmade disasters like 9/11). This is the top group in the field, and influential in policymaking, and likely unknown to most listeners.
Thanks for your thought provoking post. I’ve recently celebrated my 25th work anniversary. The week before, I had lunch with three older former co-workers. Two are retired and one is still working (ironically, the oldest one). We reminisced about working together, shared stories, and exchanged friendly barbs. I observed that, by far, the sharpest of them is the one who is still working. And he’s 20+ years older than I am. This observation got me wondering about the prospect of continuing my current job for another 25 years. And it really got me thinking about how to distinguish myself in a crowded space — and find a way to make it fun for me. For example, what I liked in my first 10 years working is very different from what I like now. Your post inspired me to write out some rules for my next phase of work.
Keep up the great, fascinating, and ever-changing work.
P.S. As for people I would love to hear interviewed, it struck me recently that I’ve never heard a long form interview with Guy Fieri. He is prolific in brand creation. And I think he started by winning a Food Network game show. He has restaurants, tv shows, products, and lots more. Yet I’ve never heard his origin story or how he finds the time to do so much.
Another personal favorite of mine is Roger Federer. To me, the GOAT. Also, seems humble, competitive, and genuinely nice. He’s a family man who really balanced a lot. He’s a major brand ambassador, but was reportedly not offered a lifetime Nike contract (like some other athletes). He’s one of the most recognizable and marketable brands. He’s launched his own brands as well. I’d love a deep dive on how he managed to keep his body in the necessary condition to compete for as long as he did at the level he did. I want to know how much he slept, what rules he had the night before matches, what foods he ate and avoided, supplements, training regimens, “in season” and “off season” work, how he selected different coaches at different times of his career. Plus, there is the whole aspect of dealing with a freak injury while still at the peak of his career, then returning from the injury to rise again.
I Applaud the change and happy to be along for the ride
Makes a lot of sense. You have always been a thoughtful and forward thinker. My only recommendation is that you may want to do what athletes do with periodization training, which is to draw back every 5 weeks or so. You can easily do that by continuing to republish “best of” podcasts periodically. This will keep you and your team fresher and will keep your evergreen interviews front and center with your base. Best to you in this new stage!
I love this update and I’m excited to see what emerges. Some of your relative unknown guests are among my favorites, and I equally appreciate your conversations with folks like Arnold because you have taken the conversations somewhere new.
I think Jon Young (Coyote’s Guide, What The Robin Knows, friend of Craig Foster, tracker & mentor) could be a really interesting guest for you. I’d be really excited to hear where your curiosity intersects with his skills and stories.
Would love to see you interview Stephen C. Meyer. A scientist who believes in God, he’s wrote multiple books, including one called “The God Hypothesis”, that suggests there is objective scientific evidence of the existence of a Creator. I realize you’re “allergic to religion”. His books are not religious, but instead reasonable descriptions that suggests that we might not be here by coincidence. He is not a quack who makes simple “God of the Gaps” arguments, but instead very informed evidence based arguments rooted in different scientific disciplines. He’s also very eloquent, and seemingly charitable in conversation. I’d find it a fascinating conversation for you to have! At the least, I think you’d enjoy speaking with him and picking his brain, as large as it seems.
Hey Tim !!
Been listening to your podcast since 2014 (first podcast I was ever super stoked about was featuring Tony Robbins & you) & been listening ever since
Question — would you ever sponsor or “publish” a podcast / daily fictional series ??
I’m recording a series right now that I plan launching January 1st 2025
I don’t want to do details in the comments section for surprise element & all but if curious, feel free to reach out to [Moderator: email redacted from public forum but preserved in intake field.]
Have a super weekend ☀️
Hey Tim,
I’ve listened to many of your episodes and the roundtable you did on heretical beliefs was one of my favorites. Thanks for everything!
If possible, how about interviewing someone who’s been in your life the (X years) that is not worldly famous. Why have they been around you for years? Maybe due to – personal connection or comfort or communication or familiarity? Huge fan for years and I am good with change. Stay sexy!
Interview some Japanese/Asia/Non-Western legends. These people might be very well-known in Japan/Asia, but would probably fit the barbell rule for your core audience?
Two words: John McPhee.
More random shows with Kevin. The meandering conversations you have with him are way more interesting (IMO) compared to the other formats.
Tim. How about an episode with Tim Keller? So many of your ( and all of our) questions / struggles / inquiries could be answered with faith, but so many times faith is painted as ignorant. Keller is not that(!) and would be amazing.
My favorites have been the ones I have never heard of. So my preference would be the 10% no one has heard of. You have done some kick ass work in that space, and there are so many left to interview. Keep it up please. Your work has been immensely edifying! And entertaining
Also, you and your compatriots kept me company on many rides to work or home on the metro during difficult times. Please don’t stop just yet😊
Hey Tim,
Love what you do. You have been life changing for me. All in a positive way. Appreciate it and am very grateful to have found your books, podcasts and your ‘thinking’…
Segway to my suggestion on content.
You’ve always been about optimising life and high performance.
Now AI is entering the mainstream, the status quo will be changing. AI will soon become the status quo.
It’s the new iteration of – “If you’re not paying for the product, you are the product”
Except, it’s not our attention that’s the product this time round, it’s our ‘thinking’.
…which means much or your past episodes learnings for the worlds best may become redundant.
How does this change when our current thinking is AI’d?
Not from a place of fear. Completely the opposite.
This could be the biggest moment of human mind growth in history.
That is the beautiful thing…
The next enlightenment period.
Humans will become the next massive store of potential value, waiting to be discovered.
Not so great at being productive or creating value like we do now. But, a blank canvas (or mind) has infinite possibilities.
What does this look like?
What are the opportunities for change ahead?
You would have a very unique and valuable perspective on this and a network that could plant seeds of possibility in your audience that could help define the next era.
More on Parenting and Kids please 🙂
I just listened to a podcast on Neuralink on the Lex Friedman Podcast (highly recommended episode even though I don’t really like Lex as an interviewer). It was EIGHT HOURS long! But it was so cool! It was a really deep dive into one specific subject from multiple angles, as he interviewed multiple people in the project (CEO, COO, lead surgeon, and patient).
I would really like to see that on the Tim Ferriss Show. Multiple interviews exploring one topic in great depth from multiple perspectives.
Thanks for all you do Tim and don’t worry too much about making content too frequently. Your listeners will still be there even if you take a four month sabbatical!
Excellent idea on the new format. The book launch podcasts are getting really boring.
Absolutely love the new Random Show format! It brings a fresh energy, and I’d love to see similar styles (probably not exactly the same) with your other guests/friends. Considering your network of high performers, this approach highlights unique insights and perspectives that often get overlooked. It’s a niche that I think many listeners would appreciate—delving into the smaller ideas of the big thinkers is something no one else is really exploring.
I love that you have taken time out to ‘do some work’ and have some thinking/creative/reflective time. I love the way you are a very generous interviewer, and always seem genuinely interested in the actual person rather than just their accomplishments, I feel those are the absolutely golden moments in your interviews. I like that you give people choice in how they answer and you often give them a long lead in which gives them time to understand what you’re asking. And you’re not afraid of going in deep and personal, those are often golden moments too.
I second all the people that have suggested going outside the box in some way (doing the 10%). I feel you are the perfect person to bring people from other cultures to English speaking audiences. It is intriguing to think of how much we miss out on because it is primarily in another language.
For a look at how personal stories can be done powerfully check out SBS Australia’s ‘Front Up’ with Andrew Urban from the mid-1990s (available on YouTube).
Here are my suggestions, each person is so much more than their job title, and if you don’t recognise a name it it is highly probable that it falls in the 90% for Australians:
Hi Tim,
A British fan here with some grey hair… I’ve been listening to the podcast, and reading your books from the very beginning (when I didn’t have grey hair), back when I had to find obscure podcast apps on my smartphone so I could listen… I love how the podcast has evolved with you (with us) and I’m looking forward to the next iteration. Regarding the ‘middle’, I completely agree. More often than not, I listen to your episode with ‘author x’ rather than read their book, as I’ll also find them on several other podcasts as well.
I have loved listening to the 10%’s, the people I would never have come across otherwise, and in the 90%’s, I’ve listened to the Neil Gaiman episode so many times – and bought the fountain pen too…
Much love and keep up the great work!
M
I love that you’re doing this. I had started skipping more and more episodes around covid when, no offence, a lot of the guests I just couldn’t relate too. They all seemed like they were born on third base.
What I would love to see you do more of, and I had been thinking about it before you decided to do this I swear, is interview genuine local heroes. Kind of like your high school wrestling coach. Like say someone in your town is just a really old, fucking great mechanic. He’s known around the state even as just a brilliant guy and outstanding mechanic who has been fixing cars for 50 + years. I wanna meet that guy.
Or say that old lady who has sheltered personally more than 1000 dogs in her life but she’s never run a dog shelter as a profession or anything. She just loves and cares for these dogs. She’s gotta know a thing or two.
Or just this guy https://www.image.ie/self/mohamed-bzeek-156982/amp
I’ll listen to every one of those episodes.
hi Tim
I’ve been listening since 2014 and yours is still my top podcast, along with Shane Parrish’s. Long-form and curiosity will stand the test of time. I love the variety of guests and yay to no book launch guests – those guests are drained and it shows,
I would like to suggest Dr Stephen Porges and Deb Dana. Polyvagal Theory explains and overlaps with so much of what you talk about with guests. You won’t find him in many places and the other one who would be fun is Bessel van der Kolk (he wrote the body keeps the score). They do have books but these might be people who want to talk about what they do rather than the book. 🙂
Glad to know your podcast will continue. I’ll still be walking in vineyards and mountains and listening.
Great post Tim. I always seem to gravitate to your episodes with close friends, Kevin Rose, Josh Waitzkin and Kevin Kelly to name a few. There is never any preamble, we all get to dive in with you. I love those episodes.
I also thought the HERESIES episode was a great experiment. I enjoyed the debate and listening to interesting thoughts and ideas.
Finally, keep walking! The walking episodes are fun and remind me to get up and out of the house.
I’m so happy you didn’t choose options 1 or 2,
I always got inspired by not only what Tim and the guests said in the podcast, also for the way Tim thinks and designs the podcast, way of thinking basically. And this is one of those, and I also changed the way I listened to podcasts since Tim went sabbatical, not retreat, but redirect. And the action always louder than the format. So thank you. And if possible I would love to hear Tim talking with more writers, it’ has always been interesting. Like for example Ann Patchett, always think she is Tim kind of people, interesting and diligent and therefore resourceful. Anyways looking forward to this new approach! Inspired as always since 2017.
Bobby Fingers
Freaking love it!!! Can’t wait. Tim, you have no clue what your podcast has added to my life. I’m glad (and excited) for this new chapter
You could interview someone in the painting scene, Eric Rhoads