We are locking up these parts of us that are so wonderful and have so many talents… when they’re not locked up and when they’re not stuck in the past.— Richard Schwartz
Richard Schwartz is on the faculty of the department of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.
He began his career as a family therapist and an academic at the University of Illinois at Chicago, where he discovered that family therapy alone did not achieve full symptom relief. In asking patients why, he learned that they were plagued by what they called “parts.” These patients became his teachers as they described how their parts formed networks of inner relationships that resembled the families he had been working with. He also found that as they focused on and, thereby, separated from their parts, they would shift into a state characterized by qualities like curiosity, calm, confidence, and compassion. He called that inner essence the Self and was amazed to find it even in severely diagnosed and traumatized patients. From these explorations, the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model was born in the early 1980s.
IFS is now evidence based and has become a widely used form of psychotherapy, particularly with trauma. It provides a non-pathologizing, optimistic, and empowering perspective and a practical and effective set of techniques for working with individuals, couples, families, and—more recently—corporations and classrooms.
This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.
Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 900 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the best overall mattress of 2022 by GQ magazine, Wired, and Apartment Therapy. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk-free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode that outlines effective paradigms for dealing with trauma and addiction? Listen to my conversation with Dr. Gabor Maté, in which we discuss investigating the causes rather than the consequences of addiction, the therapeutic value of psychedelics (including the right way and the wrong way to experience ayahuasca), why some powerful modalities aren’t for everyone, and much more.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Disclaimer from Richard Schwartz: There is an on-going debate in the culture regarding the validity of recovered memories. While there is considerable evidence that recovered memories of abuse can be real, in some cases they are not. If such memories come to you, it is important to not act on them without corroborating evidence.
- Internal Family Systems | IFS Institute
- Introduction to the Internal Family Systems Model by Richard C. Schwartz
- You Are the One You’ve Been Waiting For: Bringing Courageous Love to Intimate Relationships by Richard C. Schwartz
- Self-Therapy: A Step-By-Step Guide to Creating Wholeness and Healing Your Inner Child Using IFS, A New, Cutting-Edge Psychotherapy by Jay Earley
- Greater Than the Sum of Our Parts by Richard C. Schwartz | Sounds True
- Internal Family Systems Therapy, Second Edition by Richard C. Schwartz and Martha Sweezy
- Internal Family Systems (IFS) for Trauma, Anxiety, Depression, Addiction, & More with Dr. Richard Schwartz & Dr. Frank Anderson | PESI
- My Healing Journey After Childhood Abuse (Includes Extensive Resource List) | The Tim Ferriss Show
- Inside the Revolutionary Treatment That Could Change Psychotherapy Forever | Elemental, Medium
- MDMA Therapy Training Program | MAPS
- The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk
- Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach
- The Internal Family Systems Model Outline | IFS Institute
- Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy (Resources) | tim.blog
- Lord of the Flies by William Golding
- Suicidal Ideation | Wikipedia
- Dangerous Firefighters by Marta Chausee, Judy Lauwasser, and Dick Schwartz | Self to Self (via Derek Scott)
- “The Curious Paradox Is That When I Accept Myself Just as I Am, Then I Change.” -Carl Rogers | Dimensional Psychotherapy
- Integrating Psychedelic Experiences Utilizing the Internal Family Systems Therapeutic Model | International Journal of Social Sciences and Management Review
- The Frogs and The Fighting Bulls | Fables of Aesop
- How to Work With Your Inner Critic: An Interview with Richard Schwartz | 1440 Multiversity
- Dr. Gabor Maté — New Paradigms, Ayahuasca, and Redefining Addiction | The Tim Ferriss Show
- After sharing my story of childhood abuse with the world, what has the aftermath been like? [08:24]
- As a freshly graduated family therapist in the early ’80s, Richard shares how he first encountered the concept of “parts” that became foundational to IFS. [15:17]
- I confess my initial resistance to IFS and how seeing its non-pathologizing methods put into action changed my opinion, and Richard speaks to why diverging from traditional therapy can be a hard sell. [22:34]
- Richard gives us a brief conceptual overview of IFS so we can understand the context of terms like “parts” and “exiles” and “firefighters.” [29:03]
- A note on how IFS prompts self-discovery in a way that some have only found through the use of psychedelics. [37:22]
- For the sake of demonstration, Richard takes me through an IFS session to explore how I might move from a place of anxiety and fear to a place of trust and faith by addressing and getting to know the parts of me that stoke that anxiety and fear rather than trying to dismiss them. [39:54]
- A post-game analysis of what we just experienced together — how becoming a compassionate witness to these traumatically burdened parts of ourselves and giving them a voice fosters much-needed self-empathy for the healing process to truly begin. [1:06:13]
- How parts work can be applied to someone going through suicidal ideation. [1:09:48]
- As psychologist Carl Rogers once said, “The curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I change.” How does this relate to the IFS model, and what’s the step after this acceptance? [1:16:08]
- While psychedelic experiences have proven therapeutically helpful for a number of issues including PTSD, they’re not suitable for everyone. But might it possible for IFS to help a prospective patient prepare for a psychedelic experience? What are the potential dangers? [1:17:31]
- How can someone make IFS a daily practice? Richard gives us an example from his own life that took place right before this interview, and shares what a good check-in might look like. [1:23:42]
- Couples in quarantine over the past year may have experienced what IFS would call a “protector war.” What is this and how would Richard help resolve it? [1:27:49]
- What are trailheads, and how can they lead us toward a breakthrough? [1:34:20]
- Richard’s recommended resources for someone looking to further explore IFS (these can be found at the top of the selected links above). [1:36:18]
- Parting thoughts. [1:39:19]
- Jack Kornfield
- Debbie Millman
- Rabbi Jonathan Sacks
- Michael Midhoffer
- Annie Midhoffer
- Frank Anderson
- Bessel van der Kolk
- Tara Brach
- Stan Graf
- Carl Rogers
- Gabor Maté
The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 900 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.