Professor Donald Hoffman — The Case Against Reality, Beyond Spacetime, Rethinking Death, Panpsychism, QBism, and More (#585)

I listened to half of this podcast tonight. Honestly it’s kinda crazy… in a good way. Just now, having opened a book to help fall asleep (Small Boat, Great Mountain, by Amaro Bhikkhu), I opened to a page fully relevant to some of the heavier things Hoffman talks about in the podcast. Here it is: “When” Does Not Apply Time is another area in which we should notice subtle clinging. We may experience resting in awareness and have an attendant sense of clarity and spaciousness, but we may also have a firm sensation that this is happening now. When we do, without noticing it, we have turned that now-ness into a solid quality. The process of letting go happens layer by layer. As one layer falls away, we can get all excited and think, “Oh, great. I’m free now. This open space is wonderful.” But then we start to realize, “Something isn’t quite right here. There is still some stickiness in the system.” We notice the solidification of time and the limi- tation we have created of the present. There’s a verse about time by the Sixth Zen Patriarch that I love to quote. It says: In this moment there is nothing which comes to be. In this moment there is nothing which ceases to be. Thus, in this moment, there is no birth and death to be brought to an end. Thus, the absolute peace is this present moment. Although it is just this moment,there is no limit to this moment, And herein is eternal delight. Birth and death depend on time. Something apparently born in the past, living now, will die in the future. Once we let go of time, and if we also let go of thing-ness, we see there can be no real “thing” coming into being or dying; there is just the such- ness of the present. In this way, there is no birth or death to be brought to an end. That’s how this moment is absolutely peaceful; it is outside of time, akaμliko. Thoughts?

I loved this episode, just what I needed whilst working on Easter Friday pondering the great mysteries of life. I’ve got a lot of research to do now.

Tim, thank you for this episode, I found it deeply interesting. In the interview I heard mention of Rupert Spira. You may want to check out Spira's own teacher, Francis Lucille, who now lives in Temecula, CA. Francis was a student of a little known French teacher in the Advaita Vedanta (non-dual) tradition named Jean Klein. Francis was a physicist by schooling and trade, and also went on to develop advanced weapons and defense systems for the French government before he left that field as a result of his deepening spiritual investigation. Francis has all kinds of videos up on youtube if you want to look into him.

Tim, thank you for this episode, I found it deeply interesting. In the interview I heard mention of Rupert Spira. You may want to check out Spira's own teacher, Francis Lucille, who now lives in Temecula, CA. Francis was a student of a little known French teacher in the Advaita Vedanta (non-dual) tradition named Jean Klein. Francis was a physicist by schooling and trade, and also went on to develop advanced weapons and defense systems for the French government before he left that field as a result of his deepening spiritual investigation. Francis has all kinds of videos up on youtube if you want to look into him.

If you haven’t told your child it’s a quadruped just to see if they’ll say it to other people you’re missing out on one of the great joys of parenting.

This was an incredible conversation. I would strongly suggest speaking with John Vervaeke, professor of cognitive science at the University of Toronto. I heard significant overlap with Vervaeke's and Dr. Hoffman's ideas, especially the potential of "being" as Hoffman describes and "participatory knowing" as Vervaeke describes what sounds like a similar understanding. This episode has opened a whole new perspective for me to explore re: some of the concepts I first discovered through Vervaeke – especially via his YouTube series "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis".

An interview with "Erasing Death" author Dr Sam Parnia would dovetail with topics in the Donald Hoffman interview

Forgot to add: The point is, there is no point. Credit Sheldon Kopp

What the heck??? This was such a great episode!!! I love the evolution of your podcast!!! You've had on so many amazing guests lately!!! Thanks for all these conversations, it's made my life so full!

I've been a follower for quite a number of years and maybe responded briefly a couple of times. However, your discussion with Professor Hoffman was a revelation, an absolutely brilliant and riveting two hours. Thank you.

My favorite episode of the year ! I have listened 5 times now. One can jump in at any point and be mesmerized. Donald’s curiosity is encouraging. We are at a fascinating culmination of technological breakthroughs and neurological discovery. I’m very enthusiastic about the next wave of discoveries in consciousness. Thank u 🙏🏼

Although a little hard to follow, this was a very interesting interview, even if I have my doubts about his ideas. At one point Mr. Hoffman, if I heard correctly, said that near-death experiences are just mis-firings in the brain. A ton of research has been done in this area that would say otherwise. I recommend reading a book called Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander. The near-death experience happened to the author and he is a neurosurgeon. So, difficult to dismiss what he has to say on the subject.

By far, this has been the most paradigm shifting podcast I've ever heard. A lot of stuff clicked for me listening to this. I'm thrilled to have stumbled upon this. Thank you, Tim and Donald, for bringing this out to a wider audience. I have work to do. 🙂

The Japanese Buddhist monk, Eihei Dogen, founder of the Soto Zen tradition, observed, “To study the Buddha Way is to study the self; to study the self is to forget the self; to forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the body and mind of others drop away. No trace of realization remains and this no trace continues endlessly.” This insight seems to concisely capture much of this discussion's points and observations. A strong finger, pointing at the moon … and perhaps a pathway forward?

Hello Tim, For a better understanding of consciousness or to add to Donald Hoffman's explanation, please also read the article titled "Proof of the Existence of God" by Professor Subhash B Kak written in the Medium.com website. What Dr. Donald Hoffman is trying to say has been said in the Hindu Vedic literature for over several millenia. Listening to the Vedanta Society of NY discourses on Vedanta by Swami Sarva Priyananda, etc would also help. Physical reality is an appearance in Consciousness. It is created in Consciousness, sustained in Consciousness and will dissolve back into consciousness. Consciousness is not created by the brain or other human parts.

Great episode with Donald Hoffman. I listened to it twice and bought Donald's book afterwards. I'd love more episodes like this.

Feb 28, 2023. To Tim and Donald, Just listened to your great show. Nima still at IAS [Moderator: email address removed per policy.] Subject: QBism and AI ChatGPT come to the WSJ (Full ref. at bottom of post) – WSJ. Feb. 24, 2023, By Henry Kissinger !!, Eric Schmidt and Daniel Huttenlocher "….machines are likely to alter the fabric of reality itself. Quantum theory posits that observation creates reality. Prior to measurement, no state is fixed, and nothing can be said to exist. If that is true, and if machine observations can fix reality as well—and given that AI systems’ observations come with superhuman rapidity—the speed of the evolution of defining reality seems likely to accelerate. The dependence on machines will determine and thereby alter the fabric of reality, producing a new future that we do not yet understand and for the exploration and leadership of which we must prepare." https://www.wsj.com/articles/chatgpt-heralds-an-intellectual-revolution-enlightenment-artificial-intelligence-homo-technicus-technology-cognition-morality-philosophy-774331c6 My larger consciousness- portal experiences: 1/ Isolated in woods, sadness, followed by instantaneous persona bankruptcy releasing the being before I had a name. Fear moved the being back to taking on components of the persona. Try to repeat similar situation again to release being and stay longer. 2/ Solo in wilderness for 3 days without any human artifacts (planes in the sky, things on the ground). Next, clues of time drop away(is it 2023 or 1423?), then unexpected and instantly, consciousness bursts with energy/creativity as brain activity supporting persona in a culture is no longer needed. Best to both of you.

Hearing this interview I remembered of something I read in one of Jung’s books. Carl Jung was once in Africa and had wandered far away and he came up to a wonderfull field with animals with no hint of human presence. He writes that he fell that the reason we humans exist is for this natural beauty to be perceived, if no one saw this sight, it would not be. It is not too far of a leap to conclude that the sight he saw was a construct, a representation of sorts, a product of consciousness.

I forgot to add, much of the discussion reminded me of Dr Iain McGilchrist’s new masterpiece, “The Matter with Things”.

Isnt it annoying to have our entire scripture spelled out with zero mention of the source? I feel happy for the joy and freedom it can bring, and sad for this not getting any light. Ultimate there is no ownership or power, but this I personally found sad and shameful that no one is saying this at all. Im not a religious person at all, and born in a Jain family, but not revealing sources felt not good.