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Tim Ferriss

Naval Ravikant and Nick Kokonas (#737)

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This episode is a two-for-one, and that’s because the podcast recently hit its 10-year anniversary and passed one billion downloads. To celebrate, I’ve curated some of the best of the best—some of my favorites—from more than 700 episodes over the last decade. I could not be more excited. The episode features segments from episode #97 “Naval Ravikant — The Person I Call Most for Startup Advice” and episode #341 “Nick Kokonas — How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life.”

Please enjoy!

Bios of guests may be found at tim.blog/combo.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.

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Transcript of the full Naval Ravikant episode | Transcript of the full Nick Kokonas episode | Transcripts of all episodes

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#737: Naval Ravikant and Nick Kokonas

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

SHOW NOTES

  • [04:34] Notes about this supercombo format.
  • [05:53] Enter Naval Ravikant.
  • [06:05] On uncompromising honesty.
  • [08:05] What Naval looks for when deciding to invest in a founder.
  • [11:03] Recommended reading from outside the startup world.
  • [18:38] Who Naval considers successful.
  • [21:02] Cultivating non-judgmental awareness.
  • [26:08] How to replace bad habits with good habits.
  • [29:31] Naval’s advice for his younger self.
  • [32:01] Naval’s billboard.
  • [35:46] Enter Nick Kokonas.
  • [36:05] Is pressure Nick’s default setting, or are perceived risks an illusion?
  • [36:55] How do behavioral economics and Richard Thaler influence Nick’s approach?
  • [41:38] Nick’s transition from philosophy to finance; was philosophy an asset?
  • [42:43] Why Nick’s professor gave him shorter assignments than classmates.
  • [44:57] Nick’s introduction to trading; dumbing down academics for clerk job.
  • [46:42] Why philosophy majors often become traders.
  • [47:19] Why Nick is glad he didn’t pursue an MBA in 1992.
  • [48:41] Why Nick thinks his professor singled him out from his peers.
  • [52:52] Recommended books for aspiring entrepreneurs without philosophy background.
  • [57:31] Did being a Merc clerk meet Nick’s expectations?
  • [1:00:02] How Nick followed his father’s entrepreneurial model in trading.
  • [1:04:38] Why Nick left his mentor after a year to start his own company.
  • [1:05:41] How Nick and employees trained to quicken mental agility for trading.
  • [1:08:17] The moment Nick realized he could thrive in trading.
  • [1:09:02] Recommended resources for becoming a better investor.
  • [1:11:22] Nick seeks out “high, small hoops” for investment risks.
  • [1:14:00] Do businesses fail due to difficult model or lack of due diligence?
  • [1:16:55] When and why Nick decided to enter the restaurant business.
  • [1:18:26] The dinner leading to Nick and Grant Achatz’s partnership.
  • [1:27:52] Why Nick chose to open a restaurant out of many risky options.
  • [1:30:33] How Nick spots talent early that others notice late.
  • [1:34:07] Questioning restaurant conventions like candles and white tablecloths.
  • [1:37:09] A now-famous chef was Alinea’s first customer.
  • [1:38:03] Nick and Grant wouldn’t let designers override their ideas.
  • [1:38:47] How Nick contributed effectively as a restaurant industry newcomer.
  • [1:14:19] Why Nick was “horrified” when Alinea won Best Restaurant in 2006.
  • [1:43:50] Grant’s cancer diagnosis; writing a book and revolutionizing reservations.
  • [1:45:28] Traditional restaurant reservation systems and Nick’s improvements.
  • [1:57:17] Bickering at press dinner; avoiding Next becoming “Disneyland of cuisine.”
  • [2:02:14] Reservation software problems; variable pricing based on day of week.
  • [2:05:48] The moment Nick realized “This is the best thing I’ve ever built.”
  • [2:07:41] Why the reservation system’s rewards were worth the asymmetric risks.
  • [2:10:16] Using Marimekko charts to visualize restaurant and sponsorship data.
  • [2:16:57] The next industry Nick wants to disrupt: truffles.
  • [2:18:55] Illuminating black boxes.
  • [2:26:24] Self-selection of job roles; how Nick’s hiring process has changed.
  • [2:32:01] Systems Nick uses to cope with a lot of email.
  • [2:37:43] Importance of engaging on social media, even if unable to respond to all.
  • [2:39:35] What “puzzle” filters and mini-hurdles in correspondence accomplish.
  • [2:40:36] Comparing similarities between the music and publishing industries.
  • [2:49:55] The agency problem as another black box.
  • [2:54:58] The Hembergers, The Alinea Project, and the upcoming independent Aviary Book.
  • [3:01:42] A brief discussion about cocktails.
  • [3:05:42] Books Nick has gifted most and how he personalizes gifts.
  • [3:08:10] Nick’s billboard.
  • [3:09:49] Parting thoughts.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Naval Ravikant:

Naval Podcast | AngelList | Website | Twitter

Connect with Nick Kokonas:

The Alinea Group | Tock | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

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Erik McLellan
Erik McLellan
1 year ago

First of all, I love your podcast, so thank you for all of the time and energy you put into choosing guests and preparing for your interviews. Every time I listen, it is worthwhile.

I recently listened to this episode with Nick and Naval and found it phenomenally intriguing, as always.

I wanted to offer, if I may, an opinion on why I feel that philosophy majors make good business leaders or investors. This topic came up briefly as part of your conversation with Nick on his background.

There is a concept, which took me a while to figure out a way to summarize, but that I now like to think of as “Personal Objectivism”, and I believe it is a fundamental root of why someone like Nick, with a philosophy background, can be successful at business or investing.

Since math, investing, and most businesses, are fundamentally objective, as was discussed at length, those who are good at math and analytics can be successful by weighing the risk of certain choices. The numbers at the root of those decisions are, to a very large degree, black or white.

The challenge is that humans are involved. This injects emotion, opinion, speculation, etc, etc. into the mix, which can often mask the black and white numbers.

Someone who is naturally gifted at numbers/math (…some people are born with it), but studies philosophy, develops the advantage of being able to work with human element layer that often clouds the better judgment of those who haven’t learned to filter it out.

Once you have the ability to recognize the parts of business and investing that fall into a personality/emotional bucket vs. the pieces that are in the analytical/objective bucket, you have an advantage. Hence, Personal Objectivism.

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Sanjay
Sanjay
1 year ago

I was hoping we had a new Naval Ravikant episode. Disappointed.

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