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Live from South Korea — Steve Jang on Korea’s Exploding “Soft Power,” The Poverty-to-Power Playbook, K-Pop, “Han” Energy, Must-See Movies, Export Economies, and Much More (#707)

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“For Koreans, ‘han’ can be a drive to do great things, to bond together, to understand each other, to empathize. But it can also just be anger and K-rage which, channeled correctly, allows you to build an entire industry and succeed on the global level to create pop-culture phenomena that win Grammys and movies that win Oscars and light up the world to what’s happening in this little country that used to be poor, that was broken after colonization and a war.”

— Steve Jang

Scroll down to the show notes section to see Steve’s must-see Korean movies and must-do things in Seoul.

Steve Jang (@stevejang) is the founder and managing partner at Kindred Ventures, an early-stage venture capital fund based in San Francisco. He is also a longtime friend and one of the founder-now-investor generation of VCs that arose out of the last technology cycle. Steve is one of the top 100 venture capital investors in the world, according to Forbes Midas List of top venture capital investors, and was ranked #45 in 2023. He is also a Korean-American, a gyopo, who is deeply invested and involved in both the technological and cultural worlds in the US and Asia. 

Previously, Steve was an early advisor to, and angel investor in, Uber, and then an early-stage investor in Coinbase, Postmates, Poshmark, Tonal, Blue Bottle Coffee, and Humane, the AI device platform. He helped Uber, Coinbase, and Blue Bottle Coffee, among others, to expand into Korea and Japan. As an entrepreneur, Steve co-founded companies in the consumer internet, mobile, and crypto space.

In the film and music world, he is an executive producer, and his most recent film is Nam June Paik: Moon Is the Oldest TV, which tells the story of the greatest Korean artist, and father of digital video art, and which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in 2023. His next film is a documentary about Vitalik Buterin, the creator of Ethereum.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega fish oil, GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving, and Wealthfront high-yield savings account.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#707: Live from South Korea — Steve Jang on Korea’s Exploding “Soft Power,” The Poverty-to-Power Playbook, K-Pop, “Han” Energy, Must-See Movies, Export Economies, and Much More<br />

This episode is brought to you by Nordic Naturals, the #1-selling fish-oil brand in the US! More than 80% of Americans don’t get enough omega-3 fats from their diet. That is a problem because the body can’t produce omega-3s, an important nutrient for cell structure and function. Nordic Naturals solves that problem with their doctor-recommended Ultimate Omega fish-oil formula for heart health, brain function, immune support, and more. Ultimate Omega is made exclusively from 100% wild-caught sardines and anchovies. It’s incredibly pure and fresh with no fishy aftertaste. All Nordic Naturals’ fish-oil products are offered in the triglyceride molecular form—the form naturally found in fish, and the form your body most easily absorbs.

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Want to hear another episode featuring a gyopo? Listen to my conversation with streetwear artist Bobby Hundreds in which we discussed his double life as a parent-pleasing law student and clandestine artist, collaboration over competition, rolling with the tides of fickle fashion, necessary disconnections, subcultural security, hermit north stars, and much more.

#671: Bobby Hundreds — Building an Iconic Streetwear Brand, Making $7 Million in 40 Minutes, The Power of Garfield, Why Korean Entertainment is Taking Over the World, Maintaining the Mystery, The Fickleness of Fortune, and Developing “Nunchi”

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

  • Connect with Steve Jang:

Kindred Ventures | Twitter | Instagram | Threads | LinkedIn

Steve’s Top “Must-See” Korean Movies:

Steve’s “Must-Do” Things in Seoul:

  • Walk and explore the old town areas of Samcheong, Insa, and Hongdae. Meander around these hills and small streets and alleys full of small shops, cafes, and tea houses.
  • Headbob or dance with local folks at small DJ bars in Hongdae or Itaewon. Favorites are Cakeshop, Hills and Europa, and Gopchang Jeongol.
  • Eat at a Hanwoo beef specialty restaurant. Hanwoo is the Korean version of Wagyu.
  • Check out small art galleries, craft boutiques, and large museums including the Leeum. The artist community in Korea is a core element of Korean society, in historical, counterculture, and fine art spheres.
  • Eat lunch in the food court of a major department store like Hyundai, Galleria, or Shinsegae. Completely different quality than what you’d expect in the US.
  • Exercise at the outdoor park by the Han River. The colder the weather, the better.
  • Get Tongdak (Korean fried chicken) and beer. If you aren’t eating next to taxi drivers and ajummas, then it’s not OG.
  • Explore Dongdaemun Market, the largest independent fashion designer marketplace in the world.
  • Go out for cocktails, makkoli (fermented soybean liquor), and karaoke (which is called “noraebang” in Korean) in Apgujeong, the cool kid area of Gangnam.
  • Sign up for a K-pop boot camp for three months and pay to learn how to sing, dance, and dress to be in the next BLACKPINK or BTS.

SHOW NOTES

  • [09:37] Why has Korean culture been globally overlooked until recently?
  • [13:36] In Seoul, the future is now.
  • [17:23] Gyopo and the Korean diaspora.
  • [19:15] Modern relations between South Korea and Japan.
  • [21:07] Christianity and Confucianism in South Korea.
  • [23:17] The intensity of Korean (including gyopo) hagwons.
  • [25:46] Why Steve finds Min Jin Lee’s Pachinko particularly moving.
  • [28:07] Japanese nostalgia.
  • [29:25] Seoul: the Bizarro Tokyo?
  • [39:49] Generations of Korean families traumatized by North/South separation.
  • [44:32] Class struggle and cultural dichotomy in Korean cinema and literature.
  • [50:22] Activism in a chaebol-dominated landscape.
  • [54:25] How Korean culture resonates on a universal level.
  • [56:50] How big money finances the artistic class struggle against big money.
  • [59:57] Is the K-wave a fad, or is it here to stay?
  • [1:05:24] Getting a handle on the untranslatable han.
  • [1:08:13] Jeong and nunchi.
  • [1:14:38] What will it take to remedy South Korea’s disastrously low birth rate?
  • [1:25:05] Why I’ve been so fascinated by the K-wave.
  • [1:36:02] How I’ve been learning the Korean language.
  • [1:47:04] Why so many Japanese women visit Korea.
  • [1:47:57] The lucrative power of Korea’s export economy.
  • [1:52:07] Why the main road in Gangnam is named after the capital of Iran.
  • [1:54:19] The real reason Steve believes South Korea is so industrious on multiple fronts.
  • [1:58:02] How learning just 10 sentences in another language can fundamentally change your experience.
  • [2:00:28] Korean food!
  • [2:09:35] The unforgivable insult of leaving food uneaten.
  • [2:11:25] Why you owe it to yourself to see Nam June Paik: Moon Is the Oldest TV.
  • [2:17:46] Why you owe it to yourself to listen to “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” by Korean psych rock band He5.
  • [2:18:15] How gyopo influence on the arts bypassed home censorship policies.
  • [2:24:20] Why you owe it to yourself to visit Seoul sooner rather than later.
  • [2:26:30] Parting thoughts.

MORE STEVE JANG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“The North and South Korean governments at certain times, when they get along, they’ll try to do some great olive branch moves to reunite families. And they had the TV station film it, and they set up a whole area and they brought buses down. And it turned out to be not cathartic at all, but reopening pain.”
— Steve Jang

“Class struggle is the theme of so many [Korean] movies, books, TV series. It’s the suffering and the struggle to move out of their condition, and that society and the upper crust of society won’t allow it. This tension is in music, it’s in movies, it’s in literature, it’s in TV shows, it’s all around. And you might say, ‘Oh, no, it’s around every country.’ Sure it is. But it’s really strong and consistent in Korean movies and literature.”
— Steve Jang

“Han is probably the most talked-about collective trait of Koreans. What it essentially boils down to is this idea of collective suffering that the Korean people have through history, and manifests in this very complicated feeling of we are suffering and we share that pain with each other, but it’s somehow not always a negative. It can sometimes drive us to express ourselves in strong ways. It can drive us to suffer together collectively.”
— Steve Jang

“For Koreans, han can be a drive to do great things, to bond together, to understand each other, to empathize. But it can also just be anger and K-rage which, channeled correctly, allows you to build an entire industry and succeed on the global level to create pop culture phenomenons that win Grammys, and movies that win Oscars, and light up the world to what’s happening in this little country that used to be poor, that was broken after colonization and a war.”
— Steve Jang

“There is this accelerated sense of ‘We must achieve something tomorrow because we’re already behind.’ That is a very Korean mentality.”
— Steve Jang

“Tomorrow is not guaranteed for South Koreans. There’s a well-understood tension with North Korea that at any moment this could all be over.”
— Steve Jang

“Of all the cultural exports, Korean food is the most important one.”
— Steve Jang

“You get a thousand points of credit from any Korean if you try to speak the language. They love it. It’ll smooth all rough edges on anything that you’re talking about with them if you at least try.”
— Steve Jang

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Rob Zagey
Rob Zagey
4 months ago

Hi Tim, My name is Rob Zagey. I live in South Africa. I work at the intersection of technology, data and people. I have spoken around the world on data and storytelling. I have also lived most my life with bipolar. I recently put together a talk on ‘why everyone should experience bipolar, just a little’. I know I am a nobody, but I think the message I have to share is pretty unique and would appeal to not only people with mental health challenges, but even more so to people without. I would love to come on your show if you would consider it. I also loved and still do love the late Jonathan Sacks. He is my favorite person of all time, excluding my wife. If you are even remotely interested, contact me on [Moderator: Email address removed from published comment but retained in the email submission field.], Rob

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B
B
4 months ago

Hey Tim,

Love the Korea focus! Hope you enjoyed Seoul, my home for 5 years of my life.

I saw your recommendations in this week’s 5-Bullet Friday and wanted to add one quick note

In 2012 I met you at a speaking gig in Toronto and went home (to Hong Kong) with my copy of the 4-Hour Body.

I read it and was inspired by it (and from the idea of the muse in 4HWW) to start up my own language learning business. I spent a whole weekend coming up with the mnemonics that are in Ryan’s cartoon there and published a PDF online a week later.

It started blowing up after I spread it everywhere and it became (with 2 years of hustle) the business that ultimately gave me my freedom.

But due to its popularity, it got copied many times along the way.

I published those ideas first under that PDF and it became a Kindle book as well (still very popular to this day). Ryan, while a fantastic artist and designer, didn’t come up with those ideas himself.

I never know what to do in these situations, and that business is now a part of my past.

But I just wanted to let you know this.

Those ideas in that Learn to Read Korean in 15 Minutes were actually inspired by you, and I wanted to thank you for that.

You changed my life, and so you should credit yourself.

Thank you!

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Jason Park
Jason Park
4 months ago

Thank you for this episode, I’m a long time listener first time caller as they say. I’m only 45 minutes into it and as a Korean American who is now living in Korea I’ve been loving the episode so far. I just wanted to note two minor inaccuracies. First, it was mentioned that Korea has been divided since the Korean War. However, in fact they’ve been divided since the end of World War II when Korea was divided by the victors of that war. The Korean War basically ended the same as it began in terms of borders. The second inaccuracy is the Youtube video of the Korean TV broadcast from 1983. In the podcast it is referenced as a short lived reunion between family members from both North and South Korea. Instead the reunions were between family members that were displaced within South Korea during the Korean War. There are a couple of great Korean films that reference these broadcasts. One is a film called Gilsotteum (https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0089205) by legendary South Korean director Im Kwon Taek and the other is a more recent and accessible film called Ode to My Father (https://m.imdb.com/title/tt3812366).

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Jason Park
Jason Park
4 months ago
Reply to  Jason Park

Now that I’ve finished the episode there are a couple other things I would like to mention.

It was mentioned that the previous “left wing” government limited people from buying a 3rd real estate property. This is not accurate. The government only disincentivized people from owning more than one real estate property through tax policies and lending regulations to cool down the white hot housing market. Also, I don’t believe the high deposits when renting real estate is due to the consumer credit culture as mentioned in the episode. There is a formula that calculates monthly rent amounts vs deposits where the higher the deposit the lower the monthly rent, such that at one end there is a scheme where there is no monthly rent but a hefty lump sum deposit, which is called “jeonse” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse). Back in the 60s and 70s when interest rates were sky-high the landlords preferred “jeonse” as means of capital for other investments. And this system has stuck ever since. There are even “jeonse” loans you can take out from a bank that allow you to basically pay monthly rent but with payments to the bank rather than to the landlord. In the recent era of lower interest rates there has been a move towards lower deposits but with higher monthly rent payments; however the deposits do still remain relatively high compared to the US.

Two fun facts about things mentioned in the show. One is in exchange for naming the main thoroughfare in Gangnam after Tehran, Iran named a street in Tehran after Seoul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Street). The other fun fact is that the grandson of Nam June Paik is Jinu Kim(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinu), one half of the Korean hiphop duo Jinusean, which was the first successful artist put out by YG Entertainment whose main attraction today is Blackpink.

Also, I think Steve Jang made a keen observation in that “han” is a term that mostly “gyopos” use today. My theory is that the Koreans who emigrated abroad during the 70s and 80s, their notion of what it means to be Korean is stuck in the time of their arrival to their adopted countries. Koreans in Korea have moved on from this “han” notion whereas Korean Americans haven’t progressed from the values and culture they held when they immigrated to the US. In the movie Past Lives, one of the main characters mentions “in-yun”, which she describes as providence or fate, but in half jest says it’s just something Koreans use to seduce to someone. In the same half jest tone, I think “han” is just something that Korean Americans use to justify their “K-rage”.

Lastly, thank you for devoting an entire show to Korea and promoting the country and its culture.

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Sj
Sj
4 months ago

Hi! Thanks for this great episode! Think it was mentioned that Korea is there most predominantly Christian country is Asia? I think “east Asia” would be more accurate as that goes to the Philippines.

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Claudia Gallegos
Claudia Gallegos
4 months ago
Reply to  Sj

They mentioned Philippines as well.

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Matt
Matt
4 months ago

This was such a great episode. I visited South Korea (Seoul specifically) for two weeks back in 2011, and this episode really makes me want to go back. Thanks so much for the movie recommendations btw. If I can add one more, it would be “Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter… and Spring”.

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Alan
Alan
4 months ago

Hi Tim,

I know a way to learn a LOT of Korean vocabulary in a short amount of time.

I lived in Jeonju, Korea for a year and I learned a lot of words using a very boring-looking book filled with called the Handbook of Korean Vocabulary.

Korean has a lot of compound nouns, and the power of the book that you see how one word relates to 100s of words.

Example:
Mul is water.
Mul gogi is seafood (water meat).
Tears is nun mul (eye water).
Otter is mul gei (otter dog).

Anyways – reading this book was magic and I remember blowing my students’ minds when I understood the word suburb

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Arthur G.
Arthur G.
4 months ago

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I have visited South Korea only once, and was impressed by both its modernity and its celebration of traditional Korean culture. This episode made me want to go back soon.

I especially liked the discussion of languages and how to learn them effectively. I love Duolingo, too, and have a six-year streak studying German and Latin using it. I’ve studied a tiny bit of Mandarin, too, and would like to recommend my friend Julie Sussman’s short book, I Can Read That! A Traveler’s Introduction to Chinese Characters. It’s short, and concentrates on teaching characters that are both useful and easy to learn. I read it on my first flight to China. It was so good that I knew about seventy characters well enough to recognize and read them by the time the flight landed. That only scratches the surface of the language, but it is a fun introduction, and a confidence-builder.

Thanks so much for your podcast. I am a long-time listener, and look forward to every episode. I’ve learned about subjects I never would have been exposed to because of your wide-ranging and thorough research.

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Thiago Trivelato
Thiago Trivelato
4 months ago

very good content

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GJ AEDU
GJ AEDU
4 months ago

Wow, South Korea vibes! 🇰🇷✨ Did you catch the part about tech trends? Fascinating stuff! Adding a global perspective to my radar now. 🚀 #AlwaysLearning – [Moderator: Website link removed.]

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