Dr. Willoughby Britton — The Hidden Risks of Meditation, Overlaps with Psychedelic Risks, Harm Reduction Strategies, How to Choose a Retreat, Near-Death Experiences, and More (#705)

Thank you for this show. I've been suffering for eight years and have been feeling so alone and didn't understand what was going on. My life has completely unravelled. Lost my husband to divorce and custody of my children. I'll check out the resources. Sincere thanks.

I found this topic eye-opening. I am a clinical psychologist and have never heard of individuals having these types of serious adverse events to meditation. I learned a lot and will look into the resources provided! On a more personal note, I do try to keep a consistent meditation practice but have not had a great amount of success thus far. I haven't had any type of adverse event, but the practice just hasn't stuck. But I do feel the most in tune with the world and spiritually connected on my somewhat daily (music-less) runs. Thank you for helping me see that this can be my own type of meditation/spiritual practice that best suits me!

Loved this episode. As an older woman who has overdone meditation and psychedelics (it's not only young men!), everything Dr. Brown said rang true to me. Fortunately I also had exposure to Somatic Experiencing and offshoot (Organic Intelligence) and am using techniques now similar to the "scaffolding" described. There is an interesting set of demos on Youtube of Peter Levine working with people who have sexual abuse issues. Would love for Tim to do some sort of interview that captures the power of and theories behind this sort of somatic work. Thanks so much, Cristal

Thank you so much for this episode. Yes. The medicine, as well as the poison, is in the dose. In my twenties I was in a spiritual group and now, looking back, I experienced the seated meditation as a practice of re-traumatization. I would force myself through it, thinking it was what I was supposed to do. Thankfully, an older and wiser fellow member of the group who had a longstanding Zen practice, told me, "a seated meditation practice is not always appropriate." I want the whole world to know that. Now, in my fifties, I meditate regularly. Timing is everything.

I think there is a great need for this public service announcement. Many teachers out there push the idea of "breaking through" the stress response indicators to "get to the other side". Once such teacher is Joe Dispensa. Scary to think that people could end up in psychotic breaks doing this working without knowing the dangers, or when they need to stop, especially when people are doing it alone at home, guided only by books and have no oversight or teacher to help them "offramp".

Hi Tim, I hope all is well (and I gather that is the case considering the vulnerability and thoughtfulness emanating from your conversations with Dr. Britton and Sheila Heen). I know you place tremendous value on your time so I’ll be brief. Your discussion with Dr. Britton sparked a question in me – What can be done to support the people in my life that are at an increased risk for suicide? Much like yourself, my life has been peppered with the loss of bright young men and women to suicide. Recently, I have been blindsided by a similar pattern of loss but with older men in my life (age 60+). These men appeared to have a full life and most people would describe them as exceptionally successful. I came across an article from AARP titled Why Older Men Are Killing Themselves at Alarming Rates. The rates reported on by the CDC breaks my heart but also motivates me to do something to help reverse this trend. Search the title and AARP and the article will pop up. Your conversation with Dr. Britton leads me to believe you are uniquely qualified to speak to this topic. My ask is that you noodle on this and do what you feel is appropriate. Maybe this topic could be included in a future podcast episode or the AARP article could be shared on 5-Bullet Fridays? Personally, I will be sharing this article with my loved ones and reminding them that I am here for them. I absolutely understand if this topic does not reach you or if you would prefer not to discuss given this topic's delicate nature. The last thing I want to do is project any anxiety or obligation onto you. I feel confident in saying that the work you have done over the years and specifically with Episode #705 has and will save lives from suicide. Thank you for all you do. Best, Ali Schmid

Thank you both Tim & Dr. Britton for discussing the other side of something that is usually only displayed in a positive light. I've always advised anyone who's considered going to any of these retreats to try to ensure they're in a mentally strong state prior to going and to expect a rollercoaster of thoughts, feelings and emotions. They're definitely a trip. On a more personal note: the following was mentally noted, edited and expanded upon over the course of my 10 day silent meditation retreat in June 2020 in Lava Hot Springs, ID. -Vipassana- The grass gets thin, infrequent, when you're following the herd, I've weathered through the storms sometimes not uttering a word. 10 days passed by so slowly, but time always moves the same, I've wondered if the thoughts we have, have really got a name. The senses are both dull and sharp, depending on how you live, the time we have, right here, right now, is all we have to give. I think I've solved it all today, but in the process gone insane. The reasons that I'm here at all, I have only myself to blame. When I am in your company, I'll sometimes get relief, left to my own devices, I could drown inside my grief. But we can't change the past, reliving what's already been done, and if you want to change the future, live life present, on the run. Impermanence, so permanent, when one is brave enough to admire, accepting it like moth to flame, I'll set myself on fire.

Greetings Tim~ With great interest and empathy I listened to your podcast with Dr Britton. Having lived in Hindu Ashrams, attended many Zen and Tibetan Buddhist retreats and in 1981 meditated 2 hours per day, did 2 hours of hatha yoga, studied Patanjali’s 8 limbs of yoga, and worked for the Ashram every day for a year, I learned the pitfalls of a meditation practice. Hallucinogens and fasting were prohibited. So was anything that was outside of our prescribed daily practice that would unnaturally force a peak experience. Occasionally there would be students who would violate the rules for practice and unfortunately suffer the consequences. In the early 1980’s the Grofs, established the Spiritual Emergence Network (SEN) to help people who suffered from the adverse effects of forced peak experiences or just flashbacks of past trauma. There was a term for students that we used for those seeking peak experiences, “ blissininis ( bliss-in-in-eez). In summary, Tim, as the Dalai Lama said in Dr Britton’s video of her findings to him, meditation practice NEEDS to be grounded in study and in the wholistic view of a PATH. Meditation practices have evolved from elaborate systems of beliefs, values and teachings, mainly for the purpose of self-realization, the discovery of truth and the introduction of wisdom to the ego saturated mind. It is my sincere hope you balance your skewed podcast with Dr Britton and have a podcast on the virtues of a sound and grounded meditation practice, of which is far more prevalent than your podcast would indicate. Thank you for all your good work and information you provide on a wide spectrum of life. Warm wishes and gratefully yours, Angelo Castello

WHY aren't more people talking about this? Since enjoying this episode in November, it's organically come-up in my conversations with… – An amateur athlete who uses meditation to improve performance – A friend with social anxiety who keeps trying meditation, but nothing sticks – A friend who was raised Buddhist but never felt like she 'got' meditation My favorite anecdote is the realizing that meditation approaches are tied to underlying world views – and Dr. Britton's encouragement to be aware of those values. After a tough break-up, I leaned on an hour of morning meditation and evening meditation for healing. Sometimes it helped, but I had an ominous sense that meditation slowed down my energy like a low mist obfuscating my path. It felt like I was always chasing a fleeting moment of peace, and then wandering back into self-isolation. At the time, I felt like I was 'doing it wrong,' but after hearing this episode, maybe not? Maybe meditation wasn't the right style or timing for me. Thank you for permission to explore, the share when meditation isn't working, and walk the fine balance between performance- and spiritual- meditation practices.

Dear Karen, I empathize with your struggle and your losses and trust that you will find your way through, in kind, well-meaning company.