The Scariest Navy SEAL Imaginable…And What He Taught Me (#107)

“Discipline equals freedom.” — Jocko Willink

“Leadership is infinitely more about brains than it is about brawn. The brawn stuff is from the movies and it doesn’t work in reality.”  — Jocko Willink

Jocko Willink (@jockowillink) is one of the scariest human beings imaginable.

He is a lean 230 pounds. He is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu expert who used to tap out 20 Navy SEALs per workout. He is a legend in the Special Operations world. His eyes look through you more than at you.

He rarely does interviews, if ever. But, a few weeks ago, Jocko ended up staying at my house and we had a caffeinated mind meld. Here’s some background…

Jocko enlisted in the Navy after high school and spent 20 years in the SEAL Teams, first as an enlisted SEAL operator and then as a SEAL officer. During his second tour in Iraq, he led SEAL Task Unit Bruiser in the Battle of Ramadi — some of the toughest and most sustained combat by the SEAL Teams since Vietnam.

Under his leadership, Task Unit Bruiser became the most highly decorated Special Operations Unit of the entire war in Iraq and helped bring stability to Ramadi. Jocko was awarded the Bronze Star and a Silver Star.

Upon returning to the United States, Jocko served as the Officer-in-Charge of training for all West Coast SEAL Teams, designing and implementing some of the most challenging and realistic combat training in the world.

So why is Jocko opening up? Well, in part, we have mutual friends. Second, he is the co-author of an incredible new book—Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win—which I’ve been loving. Trust me. Buy it.

This is his first mainstream interview and one you won’t want to miss.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts , Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the transcript of this episode here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

#107: The Scariest Navy SEAL I've Ever Met...And What He Taught Me

Want to hear another podcast related to leadership in the military from a decorated officer? — Listen to my conversations with General Stan McChrystal. In this episode, we discuss eating one meal per day, special ops, and mental toughness (stream below or right-click here to download):

#86: General Stan McChrystal on Eating One Meal Per Day, Special Ops, and Mental Toughness

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QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: How has discipline supported your entrepreneurial goals? What aspects could still use improvement? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…


The Tim Ferriss Show with Jocko Willink

Selected Links from the Episode

@Xtremeownership | @jockowillink | @echelonfront

  • Connect with Jocko and his organizations on Facebook:

Extreme Ownership | Jocko Willink | Echelon Front

Show Notes

  • How Jocko would design training for someone who wants to add lean muscle mass [13:49]
  • The story of how Jocko Willink got involved in jiu-jitsu [15:44]
  • How Jocko Willink’s SEAL military experience influenced his business [19:24]
  • The story of how Jocko Willink became a SEAL [22:14]
  • Where mental toughness comes from [30:04]
  • Describing the Battle of Ramadi [31:04]
  • On the leadership and strategy required to take over a city [47:14]
  • The great tacticians that Jocko Willink respects, [52:44]
  • What makes a good leader and the things to look for when identifying good leaders [53:59]
  • How to teach the skill of detachment [1:01:34]
  • Jocko Willink’s workout that would cause entire platoons to “tap out” [1:09:14]
  • What are you world-class at that people might not know? [1:12:49]
  • Morning rituals [1:14:49]
  • When you think of the word successful, who are the first people that come to mind? [1:18:54]
  • Non-military leaders that Jocko Willink admires and considers role models [1:29:45]
  • Skills and/or experiences that every man should have [1:33:34]
  • Fear inoculation for civilians [1:40:14]
  • The books Jocko likes to give as gifts [1:42:20]
  • Common misconceptions about Navy SEALs [1:49:34]
  • If you could have one billboard anywhere, where would it be and what would it say? [1:55:59]
  • Explaining the purpose of his business, Extreme Ownership [2:00:14]
  • Discussing lessons from Extreme Ownership and the value it brings to private companies [2:06:19]
  • What SEALs discuss between themselves that they don’t discuss with civilians [2:12:44]
  • Which historical figure does Jocko Willink identify with? [2:18:29]
  • Something people would be surprised to learn about Jocko Willink [2:19:22]
  • Cheesy questions: What do you order at a bar, favorite music, advice for your 25- and 35-year-old self [2:22:49]

People Mentioned

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 900 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.

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235 Replies to “The Scariest Navy SEAL Imaginable…And What He Taught Me (#107)”

  1. What a guy. Main take away I took from this was having a crystal clear reason for why you do what you do.

    Jocko has such a clear sense of purpose which was something Stan McCrystal mentioned in his interview also. When Jocko said that he thinks about that guy in a cave rocking back and forth, with a grenade in one hand and a gun in the other – that they are going to meet someday and that is what gets him out of bed, it created such a visceral reaction in me. The image was so clear and so filled with emotion that it motivated me to workout harder (I was listening to the episode in the gym) even though I am not in the military. I imagined that I would need to fight the guy in the cave someday and it pushed me – it must be 1000X that for Jocko. Made me realize that I need to get a crystal clear motivation and reason for why I am doing what I am doing. I have usually tried to use positive reinforcement for that but it seems like the negative works much better for me. I was hesitant to have something negative motivate cause I feared that it would affect me in the wrong way but fuck it, if it works, it works, and let’s give it a try.

    Also, appreciate how open Jocko was. He got emotional during the interview and I definitely felt that.

    Thank you for this episode Tim. I seem to learn the most from the guests I have the least in common with. Glenn Beck was a great example of this also (hope you have him on for a round 2).

  2. Jocko & Tim,

    @Jocko, thank you for a great book on leadership. The story that accompanies the lesson in each chapter captured my full attention.

    @Tim, thank you for recommending the Intro, ch1, ch6 & ch12. I ultimately purchased the book, b/c the stakes/time required for reading 3-4 chapters were low and the potential gains in knowledge were worth the risk. I just finished all 4 chapters and they alone make the book worth the read (I now plan on reading the entire book). Tim, I’d recommend that you make these suggestions for the books of future guests of the show (my gut says that it’d lead to higher conversion rates, not sure how easy it’d be to a/b test on the app store).

    Lastly, Jocko, thank you for your service to our country and for allowing us to live a life of freedom. Words can’t express my gratitude.

    All the best,

    Tyler Nation

  3. One of the best episodes in a while. My biggest takeaways were the detaching from situations, and the discipline = freedom thoughts.

  4. Lots of talk about weight when we are looking at the athletes or “hard trainers” on Tim’s shows, but never any talk about height. How tall is Jacko at 230 pounds? It makes a big difference if he’s 5’9″ or 6’3″.

  5. Tim, Great interview. Really appreciated your time with Jocko and the insights he shared regarding leadership, humility, and detachment. Because I know you are a learning and self-improvement fanatic, I’d like to offer one tip for you. At 1:21:40, after Jocko spoke of his heroes and was clearly emotional, you paused and then asked: “What do you struggle with?” The question took him out of the emotion of the moment. I wish you had asked instead: “What are you feeling or thinking right now?” Or: “What’s going through your heart right now?” Or: “What does your heart want to say right now?” You get the idea–when a someone (an interviewee, or a friend, perhaps…) goes really deep into their emotions, just stay in the raw emotion of moment and try to help them put words to their deepest feelings at the moment that they are feeling them. That’s where their deepest wisdom lies. And that’s how healing can occur, too.

    As a listener, I was completely riveted at that moment with Jocko, feeling completely connected with him and anticipating that he was about to speak some deep truth that maybe he had never said before, not even to himself. Then when you asked a different kind of question–a fine one, but just not appropriate at that moment–I actually said out loud, “Oh Tim, you blew it!” I wanted to hear whatever Jocko might have spoken from his heart at that moment. I’m guessing that I wasn’t alone.

    Thanks for who you are and what you do, Tim. I hope you will consider this as a loving criticism meant to add another dimension to your formidable skills as an interviewer and in your pursuit of deeper human insight on behalf of everyone.


    1. Maybe Tim was uncertain about opening him up to that degree on the air. At that point, the interview would have pretty much been over….hard to continue on with that level of emotion in the air

  6. Navy SEAL’s definitely kick ass and take names. But so do British and Aussie SAS, US Army DELTA, US Marine Corp Force Recon and US Army Rangers to name a few. The latter units just don’t have the Hollywood mystique. So, what does a Navy SEAL do after retirement? He writes a book! 🙂

    1. Take the interview for what it is and take the lessons out of it you can. I enlisted airborne in 1967, spent 3 years and that was enough. Whatever you feel about the US or war in general the focus of a man like Jocko is what drives success. I have met many very wealthy people and the one trait they have in common with Jocko is drive, persistence and dedication to a the mission, whatever it is.

  7. Very cool interview. Completely intense…. Those pauses by Tim after certain questions suggest the high level of intensity and humbleness he felt.

  8. A small but noticeable detail I noticed about this interview (unlike most of the other interviews) was the pause Jocko would take before answering questions. Just shows he puts a lot of thought into his answers, and doesn’t fill the space with “umm” or “yea…no.” Small detail that drew me in and appreciate.

    To answer Tim’s question about discipline and entrepreneurship, I think what has helped me in my entrepreneurial endeavors is that your customers, partners, and colleagues can rely on you while your company or startup is at war with other companies that could eat your lunch. I hate using the term “disruption” but I feel that most entrepreneurs are looking to challenge assumptions and paradigms in whatever industry they are working in, and it’s easy to let emotions and egos control the business decisions that guide your team and company. Feelings will be hurt, deals will be lost, and people will disagree. Staying consistent on your values, messaging, processes, shit down to the code you push out, let’s stakeholders know what you stand for and what they can count on in times of crises. Call it being disciplined, consistent, or level-headed, it has helped me navigate business decisions in the murky startup world.

    Contrary to some comments about the “what does it mean to be a man?” question, I appreciate when Tim asks this question to all his guests. I’m constantly asking this question to myself and wrote a blog post about this some time back stating how I think a lot of the values we–little ‘ol men here–are taught or inherit from our fathers or other role models as we grow up. Jocko mentioned martial arts and combat as the first two things that made him feel confident he was a man, but it was the 3rd item he stated that stood out to me. He says getting a wife and kids naturally phases out the need to “impress a girl” because you “got a girl.” In today’s dating culture, how many men can 100% say once they’ve “gotten” a girl, feel that they might not enjoy the feeling of impressing another girl?

    I found out a good friend of mine cheated on his wife. I’ve been through the ups and downs with this guy before he married going out and getting drunk, chasing tail, and doing what normal single guys do. When I found out he cheated, I sort of lost respect for him since I’ve always thought he was the epitome of a “man,” but this news shocked me since I didn’t think he could do such a thing to a woman he’s “gotten.” I now don’t know what to think of this guy, because at the end of the day he is still a man in many respects.

    In Jocko’s world, I think my friend would fail as a man. But in Jocko’s world, does a man admit his mistakes? Does he forgive? Does he get a 2nd chance?

  9. The Lancet reports approximately 600,000 violent deaths as a consequence of the Iraq war, in Iraq alone, between the years 2003 and 2007. (That’s 150,000 per year, on average, during those years).

    The Opinion Research survey totalled over 1,000,000 from 2003 to 2007.

    By contrast the US Army War Logs report 109,000 deaths in field action reports from 2004 to 2009. Naturally, these don’t account for large numbers of indirectly caused violent deaths, resulting from the chaos that is inevitable in a land where the infrastructure of civilisation has been almost totally destroyed by an invading & occupying force, which is also determined to set the local factions against each other, and changes which side is supported with cash, weapons, and logistical assistance, on a regular basis (by the end of the war having opposed and supported all of them). These are field reports of actual encounters between US Army forces and opponents (i.e. ‘firefights’). It is a serious under-count.

    All the various reports agree that the majority of casualties are civilians, with estimates ranging up to 80%.

    If you exclude the larger figure as being based on a too loose methodology, and you exclude the lower figure as being woefully inadequate for any number of reasons (self-interest on the part of the criminals who started the war based on lies, a declared policy of not counting bodies, and etc), then it is still conservative to conclude that approximately 100,000 deaths have occurred in Iraq alone, every year since the war began, that would not otherwise have occurred.

    That doesn’t count the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, the assaults on Libya, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, and other less publicised provocateur-ing in which the US regular engages as a matter of course. Nor does it assign any responsibility for their ongoing involvement in Syria, in Iran, and other places.

    According to the former Defense Secretary Robert M Gates the US has ongoing covert operations in 75 countries, with “war” in an unknown number.

    (You should consider that for a moment: not even the people directly responsible for making war can tell you accurately how many wars they are involved in. Yet you want to trust their casualty counts.)

    Further, the US has consistently claimed that it’s drone-based attacks have zero civilian casualties. That this is a blatant lie need not be emphasised, but that it casts all similar claims from the same source into significant doubt, must be emphasised. We simply cannot believe anything the US government says, and we dont.

    Nor does any of this account for deaths due to the heroin trade, where Afghanistan, under primarily US occupation – accounts for 90% of world supply of a psychoactive substance said by the UN to be responsible for another 100,000 deaths per year.

    Taken altogether, the above alone makes the million deaths in the last decade a relatively conservative estimate, very likely a significant under-estimate.

    Those policies kill, maim, displace, and impoverish real people, all over the world, every year. Lot’s of them.

  10. I just want to leave some words of respect for this episode, and express my opinion that while there are indeed other worthy subjects of discussion — such as the questions of necessity/morality of war for the human species, or geopolitics since WW II and the role of the USA in the world … I do find it disrespectful and inappropriate that some have tried to devalue the content of this podcast while invoking those other subjects. This was a highly personal and in my view deeply valuable podcast. We should indeed be discussing the morality of war, and geopolitics, but they are separate subjects. Jocko made the dynamics of his personal world quite clear. I personally would like to have heard Tim probe further about Jocko’s calling to a world of darkness. Issues of light and dark, and war as an inescapable part of human nature are timeless and potent questions. I’m sure Jocko has his perspective on that, and certainly has given it some precious thought.

  11. I see a lot of people posting comments here who would undoubtedly be happier in some third world country where the supposed “evil” US military would not provide them the freedoms to make such disparaging comments about the very people who provide them those freedoms. Since you are so embarrassed to be affiliated with the US military and what you refer to as their destruction of the world, I sincerely hope you have already booked one way travel reservations to a permanent destination in some other part of the world where things are undoubtedly so much more “democratic” in your eyes. You make me sick and you don’t deserve to live under the freedoms provided by these men and women…..but how dare I say such things about you because after all……..I am infringing on your right to do so.

  12. I listened to a part of the podcast, and then started reading “comments”. First of all, Jocko, thank you for your service. Secondly, I’m amazed at the people who disparage the man for doing a job he was contractually bound to do. Put the politics aside, and recognize he did the job the “chuckle heads” (politicians) asked of him. More than that, the guy stayed alive in a crap show. Celebrate the fact he came back alive, celebrate he honored his commitment, and celebrate the fact he wants to teach others to thrive in the midst of adversity. Get rid of the chuckle heads, but say thank you to a patriot who honored his commitment.

  13. I just finished the podcast (late I know) and wanted to leave a post here about the phrase Discipline = Freedom, as it has very Jesuit and Aristotelian roots. I try every day to live this mantra with varying levels of success.

    However, after reading all the post about the American military industrial complex, the American military, and adventurism by the US government I feel obligated to write a bit more as the conversation is incredibly one sided. First, to those of you who posted about the violence the US government has committed it is a reality and something we cannot escape. War is ugly and sometimes the wrong people die, that does not mean the war itself is wrong or unjust. World Peace is a wonderful goal but the tragedy is that so long as evil lurks just wars will and must be waged. To those of you who posted I recommend you add a few books/manuscripts to your reading list: On Killing by Dave Grossman, Just War Theory by Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, and perhaps for a modern day look at why men go to war The Heart and the Fist by Eric Greitens (who joined the SEAL teams after getting a PhD from Oxford).

    Also, remember in-action by the US government has caused millions of unnecessary deaths in this world as well. One only needs to look to Rwanda where an American public cowering from the tragedy in Somalia (Blackhawk Down) refused to take action despite the blatant genocide which was occurring. Also Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge where an American public tired of war after Vietnam also refused to act. These two genocides alone accounted for 2-4 million deaths, a factor of 10 greater than those killed in Iraq.

    We are currently watching how in-action by a US government tired of war in Iraq has failed to act in Syria giving rise to Daesh (ISIS by American terms), and created the worst refuge crisis in 30 years. Could US action have fixed the situation? No, but could it have eased the suffering of the Syrian people and prevented the rise of Daesh? Probably. Also remember that American in-action provokes smaller states to action. Early American action could have prevented Russian and Turkish involvement which now will only ensure this conflict does not resolve rapidly as both states have much to lose if the other is victorious.

    In closing, I would like to remind people that until the world is freed from evil and malice, warriors who are willing to do violence on behalf of the greater good are required. The day America loses its will or ability to project power and democracy across the globe will see a resurgence of border disputes and certain war between nation states on a much larger scale than we are currently witnessing (China, Japan, and the South China Sea, anyone?). Pax Americana is real and it is saving lives, despite its mess and agenda riddled outward appearance.

  14. I was surprised Jock and General McChrystal both ommitted the book Jarhead by U.S. Marine Anthony Swofford about the Iraq war, as suggested reading. No doubt they have both read and embraced it. It’s very good.

    (I understand it’s a film also although I have not seen the film)

  15. Jocko is just a badass,the interview was just awesome. He’s a fascinating Navy Seal/ Ju-Jitsu practitioner. I’m glad he fought for our country, he’s one scary dude to go up against. He’s a very enlightened war fighter and leader, a real warrior and a good person.

  16. I loved the book and as a veteran in the corporate world (not as hard core as a SEAL) I use it everyday. The book is easy to read and the authors don’t throw the “I’m a SEAL!” in your face. They are humble respectful and show a great deal of respect for all who serve… even us sappers.

  17. this podcast is amazing – pure gold. Thanks for having him on and getting him to open up. Some amazing thoughts and advice in there. The only podcast I’ve ever listened to twice.

  18. He’s a SEAL. Seals are heroes. Heroes are not scary unless youre a bad guy. Ergo, he is not scary, just damned impressive.

  19. Hi Tim, Very GRATEFUL for your podcasts and books! I’ve implemented so many of the recommendations by you and your guests. Please, more Jocko, Pavel, Tony Robbins, Rhonda Patrick, Josh Waitzkin, Amelia Boone +++! Some of the info has been literally life changing for me, for others, for business, training, etc. Praying for & thankful for you. Jack.

  20. First skill of leadership: humility. I love it. Just finished Extreme Ownership and got a lot out of that too.

  21. well, it all sounds very cool doesn’t it, to be the ‘ultimate killing machine’. Better than hollywood. Better than jason bourne! Where do I sign up?

    There is something no one has mentioned. The modern military, more than ever before in history, has perfected the art of brain washing. This is a fundamental and essential ingredient for breaking down a civilian and turning them into a soldier. As long as armies have existed it has been necessary to brainwash the soldier in some way or another. The most basic foundational premise for brainwashing is to make the civilian put aside their own normal happy human interests we are all entitled to like family, friends, creativity, work, reflection etc (the pursuit of happiness I believe you american types call it ) in order to pledge allegiance with their life, to the state/ the kings desire for more territory/ the kings desire for revenge or bloodlust / or just out of a fear their life will be at risk if they don’t. So! This requires some brainwashing so every one behaves themselves and follows orders 😉 with me so far?

    so, a human being is born with sovereignty to the spirit. thats what we are all here for, to be a vessel for the Spirit and be and in service to , our spirit and the spirit of others. Everything we are striving for is conciously and unconciously motivated, fundamentally, by this fact and need for the Spirit. A civilian is disassociated from this actual reason for being alive, by joining the military. Brainwashing and mind control takes place. One is no longer human by definition, but under control of a third party that requires the human to have no more free will or Spirit, and instead become some thing of an automaton. The word slave can also be used. what use are they to the King if they start thinking for themselves and become interested in their own needs and desires and, god forbid – notions of individual sovereignty and freedom – all of a sudden? No rogue programming allowed! One must have a singular operating system devised and installed and updated only by the King! Owned, back doored, open to remote access, under total surveillance at all times – by the chief programmer!! No malware or additional software allowed!!

    We are on this planet to learn how to become MORE human. military makes training makes one LESS human.

    And, the more sophisticated the military unit, the more elite and the more serious their objectives on behalf of the King (in other words the government corporate industrial complex) the deeper, more complex, more entrenched and more permanent is the brain washing. As the stakes are so high, the ultimate killing machines cannot afford to be allowed any human bits of free will left in them, that may motivate mistakes or a change of heart. Nope. not allowed to have a heart thats for sure let alone one that can change!!!. Empathy is the enemy of an ultimate killing machine

    To become a more and more refined and efficient killing machine, subverting human natures and desires – one may appear to be more effective (Oh wow, look how much strength and purpose he has, he is so clear, what a hero) but in fact it is simply a deadening of the spirit and soul making one like a robot. Because the brain washing and mind control is so utter and total. Think of either of the robot warriors (Arnold Schwarzenegger or the other one) in the movie Terminator Two. Human? Not for an instant. Efficient, ruthless, cold, militant killing machines without heart or mercy? Absolutely.

    And on the other side of things – they are no humans to their owners or their government. being slaves, they are called ‘assets’ to de personalise them. They use them to get their job done, but if the job requires dispensing of them to further their objectives – without heart or feeling they will absolutely dispense of those men in a second. regardless of how much of their life heart and soul they have donated. As per the barcode under their arm and the tracking device implanted into their skin – they are just slaves, after all

    1. mmm nice point it seems people easily confuse being ‘efficient and effective’ with being actualised , being liberated , and in touch with the true essence of ones being and why we are on this planet in a body to begin with. for instance BJ Miller ( podcast 14 april 2016) is clearly a million times more actualised, more concious, liberated and spiritually evolved than the most elite navy seal can ever possibly be in this lifetime.

      So, if you are considering joining the army or the police – don’t

      If you are already a member – leave as soon as possible

      So you can join the rest of the human race on their quest for humanity!!!

      i mean, if you are not interested in being a human whats the point…

  22. I met Jocko in San Diego. Hes the real deal. Friendly, confident, and asked me questions at the fastest rate I can remember. I’m a six degreed PhD and he had me SCRAMBLING to keep up. Great dude.

  23. I am interested in following your interviews and research. I have recently been introduced to your program and find it most interesting.

  24. TIM!! what were you thinking? he stayed over at your house? a PTSD siezure that had been quietly brewing for months could have been suddenly triggered with all the fun and excitement, and you could have been murdered in your sleep! Or, what if the satellite- pulsed commands and operating system updates and patches sent every day to the imbedded microchip in the assets cerebral cortex malfunctioned (or were hacked) and you were literally designated as the ‘islamic enemy’ to be terminated immediately?

    at 0200 after that cup of darjeeling and chocolate almond treat it was suddenly decided you were ‘ John Conner- Bin Laden Jnr, II ‘

    or , slightly less likely, in a malfunction of instructions or a hack of a remote instruction, your home could have had hellfire missiles launched onto it from a drone!

    you can’t prove that any of this is wrong. It’s much more likely to be correct, than it is likely to be incorrect. The facts and history are in favour of the above scenarios.

    So.the simple act of befriending the wrong person and letting them know your address (not to mention stay over) increased your likelihood of immediate death by many thousands of percent. We’d all be grieving now.

    You can’t afford to be so careless.

    I am being entirely serious with all of this. I love you – so many love you. I just don’t know why you could be so irresponsible.

  25. Awesome interview with an amazing human being, Tim, thanks. One aspect made me nervous, though. I briefly dated a Special Forces dude who has served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan (and who is still active duty Army). He would get very, very upset with any Navy Seals or other operatives who publicly talked about what they did on missions – he felt that talking about their work put at risk not only current operatives around the world, but also the men and women who serve after them. I don’t think Jocko crossed this line in your interview, but I was hyperaware of this concern during a few segments.

    I only bring this up to ask that you be aware of this potential risk when you are interviewing such people and editing the podcast. (And perhaps you already thinking of this!) Guys like Jocko and my former boyfriend are real-life heroes and fascinating interview subjects, and we can all learn from them, no doubt. I just cannot help but worry about all the other people serving in our armed forces when they speak publicly about their service, and god only knows who else is listening. All that being said, I enjoyed this podcast and have ordered Jocko’s book on leadership. Thanks. : )

  26. Tim, great show! I have a buddy who deployed as an EOD guy with Jocko and he talks about him often. Interested in this mention in your notes, “How Jocko would design training for someone who wants to add lean muscle mass [13:49]” How do I get to this?

    Thanks Brother!!

  27. This guy is such a moron when it comes to politics. He talks in terms of “The good guys and the bad guys.” What is he – 5 years old? You are an intelligent man Tim. You should have pressed more into Jocko’s understanding of his marching orders coming down from the elite. What was the objective? What were they trying to secure? Why were these wimpy armies with no planes or even uniforms presented as such a threat to the United States?

    1. Because Obama’s ROE’s basically required you to be shot twice before being able to return fire.

      Why SEALs go in and why everyone else goes in are very different. So if you press Jocko why he went in you’ll not get the answer you’re looking for.

      Looking at the opium epidemic in this country and drawing a line to Afghanistan ‘s 500% increase in poppy production and you don’t have to be a Navy Officer to figure that out. The deep black budgeted SAP’s approved by The Congress do not supply enough cash to destabilize the Middle East, so the CIA supplements it with drug sales.

      You may or may not get that admission from Jocko, but we went in to install central banks that will trade the petro-dollar, and then crank up the poppy production. No matter why they said they went in, that’s exactly what they did. Don’t listen to them, watch what they do.

      And until they get one in Syria they won’t be done, that’s why Killary must not be elected! She is another puppet of the breakaway civilization.

  28. Amazing podcast. So much great stuff in here. Loved the comments about discipline – and how applying it gives you more freedom. Absolutely counter-intuitive but right smack on the mark. Thanks, Tim… keep up the excellent work! Another interviews I’d love to hear: Richard Branson. Also, one female recommendation to check out for an interview: Ketaki Desai ( I interviewed her for my doctoral dissertation in business and she is seriously one of the most amazing people I’ve ever met.

  29. Thanks for your service! I’m a high school basketball coach in Colorado taking over a team that has not won a game in 2 years I would love some advice on how to get my team to be mentally tough!!

  30. Tim,

    Have you heard of the book “Leadership and Training for the Fight” by MSG Paul R. Howe (Ret.)? In it he talks about a fighter pilot (Col. John Boyd) who is credited as one of the premier military strategic minds of our time and his development of the OODA loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). Additionally, MSG Howe guides the reader through his experience as a SOF leader and law enforcement official and how he trains and equips those under him for their jobs (lots of life and death decision making).

    There are other books by DC Gonzalez, Lanny Bassham, and Nicholas Black about mental training that may interest you as well.

    Thanks for your time.


  31. “Discipline equals freedom.” I got it tattooed on my forearm…just kidding, but seriously enjoyed this podcast. It resonated because I realized (as I compared myself to this man Jacko) discipline is an area of my life where, if I were to improve it, there would be immediate growth. Perhaps I just now have the ears to hear what this man had to say…but for some reason, up until this point, I had not identified just how much suffering a lack of discipline was generating in my life. Thank you Tim and Jacko, I appreciate your insights and thoughtfulness.

  32. “Leadership is infinitely more about brains than it is about brawn. The brawn stuff is from the movies and it doesn’t work in reality.” – Jocko Willink

    I love this quote by Jocko Willink and I find this to ring true with all of the strong and disciplined people I know. I enjoyed listening to this.

  33. I was in ramadi in 06′ at a Seal post. Cool that I was there at the same time. Was also at TQ and LSAA and many other posts and FOBs. Good times believe it or not. Seals are great guys.

  34. Fantastic post Tim Ferriss! I loved your blog and the person is very energetic to whom you met nice sharing thanks. [Moderator: link and additional text removed.]

  35. 9 minute mark – Jocko talks about gaining 60ish pounds in 2ish years and being a “world class chicken nugget eater”

  36. I enjoy this interview a lot! This silence, that wasn’t spoken from my military Brother…now, make more sense! I understand that ‘talking because of talking, too much, with no cause, wasting time’ really well…=) However, i guess even Big Wolf has his soft side and opens up! p.s. I could feel that Tim is scared of him, hea..! =) All, after, all, i did enjoy this podcast A LOT. One of the best interviews! Thank you.

  37. Such an insightful interview! Glad I came across it!
    Tim I think you might find Scott Moore insteresting for another SEAL interview. He is the chairman of the nonprofit SEALKIDS and is a retired Navy SEAL Rear Admiral.