Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D. — Protocols for Fasting, Lowering Dementia Risk, Reversing Heart Aging, Using Sauna for Longevity (Hotter is Not Better), and a Few Supplements That Might Actually Matter (#819)

Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D. (@foundmyfitness) is a biomedical scientist and the founder of FoundMyFitness, a platform dedicated to delivering rigorous, evidence-based insights on improving healthspan and mitigating age-related diseases. Through her podcast, website, and YouTube channel, reaching millions globally, she translates complex science into actionable strategies for metabolic health, brain aging, and overall improved healthspan.

Dr. Patrick’s research explores genetic determinants of nutritional response, metabolic health, micronutrient deficiencies, sleep biology, and hormetic stressors, such as exercise, heat, cold exposure, fasting, and phytochemicals. She is an associate scientist and board member at the Fatty Acid Research Institute, where her work focuses on the role of omega-3 fatty acids in metabolic health and brain aging. Her peer-reviewed publications have appeared in top-tier journals, including Nature Cell Biology, The FASEB Journal, and Experimental Gerontology.

By uniting scientific integrity with protocol-driven precision, Dr. Patrick equips individuals and organizations alike with practical, scientifically sound strategies for optimizing health and longevity.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch my interview with Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D. on YouTube. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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Want to hear the last time Rhonda Patrick was on the podcast? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed simple methods for extending a healthy lifespan, minimizing cancer risks, the dangers of some common supplements, dietary effects on genetics, and much more.

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Dr. Rhonda Patrick:

Website | Podcast | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Health Protocols and Lifestyle Interventions

• Sauna Use: Linked to a 65-66% lower risk of dementia and Alzheimer’s disease when used four to seven times weekly. Optimal protocol: 174°F (79°C) for 20 minutes. Temperatures above 190°F (88°C) may be less beneficial.
• Hot Baths: Provide similar cardiovascular benefits to sauna use, with daily hot baths linked to 28% lower cardiovascular disease risk. Protocol: 104°F (40°C) water temperature for 20 minutes.
• Intermittent Fasting (IF) — Specifically 16:8: Time-restricted eating with a 16-hour fast and eight-hour eating window, shown to improve metabolic health, blood sugar control, and activate cellular autophagy.
• Extended Fasting: Water-only fasts lasting seven to 30 days that can trigger profound autophagy and provide anti-inflammatory benefits, though requiring medical supervision for safety.
• Fasting-Mimicking Diet (FMD): A low-calorie, low-protein, plant-based eating pattern for five consecutive days that aims to provide fasting benefits while allowing some food intake.
• Norwegian 4×4 Protocol: High-intensity interval training method involving four minutes at 85-95% maximum heart rate followed by three minutes active recovery, repeated four times to maximize VO2 max improvements.
• Zone 2 Training: Moderate-intensity aerobic exercise performed at conversational pace below the lactate threshold, optimizing fat oxidation, and building aerobic base for endurance and longevity.
• Tabata: A form of high-intensity interval training (HIIT) that involves short, intense bursts of exercise followed by brief rest periods.
• Seniors CrossFit: Adapted functional fitness program emphasizing scalable movements, strength training, and community engagement specifically designed for older adults to maintain independence and health.

Key Health Concepts and Terms

• VO2 Max: The maximum rate of oxygen consumption during exercise, considered the gold standard measure of cardiorespiratory fitness and a key predictor of longevity.
• APOE4: A genetic allele that significantly increases the risk for Alzheimer’s disease, with those carrying two copies developing brain pathology predictably by age 55.
• Klotho: A longevity-related protein that acts as an anti-aging factor, boosted by exercise and vitamin D, and associated with improved cognitive function and extended lifespan.
• Heat Shock Proteins (HSPs): Protective proteins activated by heat stress such as sauna use that help repair misfolded proteins, prevent protein aggregation, and provide cellular protection against damage.
• Autophagy and Mitophagy: The body’s cellular cleanup processes that clear out damaged proteins, organelles, and mitochondria, activated by fasting and intense exercise to maintain cellular health.
• NRF2 Pathway: A genetic pathway that controls the cellular response to oxidative stress and inflammation, strongly activated by compounds like sulforaphane from cruciferous vegetables.
• Ketosis / Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB): A metabolic state where the body uses fat and ketones for fuel, with BHB acting as a clean energy source and signaling molecule with anti-inflammatory effects.
• Glymphatic System: The brain’s waste clearance system that is most active during deep sleep, helping clear amyloid-beta plaques and other toxic proteins from brain tissue.
• Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs): Harmful compounds formed when sugar binds to proteins, causing tissues such as blood vessels and organs to become stiff and contributing to aging and disease.
• Microplastics and Nanoplastics: Pervasive environmental contaminants found in food, water, and packaging that can cross biological barriers including the blood-brain barrier and potentially cause cellular damage.
• Sick Quitter Hypothesis: A confounding factor in alcohol studies where people who quit drinking due to illness are miscategorized as healthy non-drinkers, potentially skewing research results on alcohol’s health effects.

Supplements, Compounds, and Products

• Centrum Silver: A multivitamin specifically formulated for adults 50+ that was used in randomized controlled trials showing it could reduce global cognitive aging by ~2 years and episodic memory aging by ~5 years in older adults.
• Vitamin D: Recommended dose is individualized based on blood tests, aiming for a level of 40-60 ng/mL. A common starting dose is 5,000 IU/day, but some may need more.
• Omega-3 Fish Oil: Crucial for brain health. A dose of ~2 grams/day is mentioned. For APOE4 carriers, the phospholipid form (found in salmon roe, krill oil, or created by the body at higher doses) is recommended for better brain delivery.
• Ubiquinol (Coenzyme Q10): A form of CoQ10 that supports mitochondrial health. Dr. Patrick gives it to her father for his Parkinson’s disease. The VESIsorb formulation by Pure Encapsulations is mentioned for higher bioavailability (and cost).
• Sulforaphane: A compound from cruciferous vegetables (especially broccoli sprouts) that activates the NRF2 pathway, boosting glutathione and aiding detoxification of pollutants like benzene and BPA. Best taken on an empty stomach unless it causes GI distress.
• Creatine Monohydrate: The “gold standard” form. Recommended for muscle performance (increasing exercise volume) and cognitive benefits. A 5g/day dose saturates muscles, while higher doses (10-20g/day, in divided doses) are suggested for cognitive enhancement and combating sleep deprivation.
• Curcumin: Used as a natural anti-inflammatory alternative to NSAIDs for headaches and delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS). The Meriva (phytosomal) formulation is recommended for bioavailability, with a suggested dose of four 500mg capsules (2g total).
• Magnesium: Essential for over 300 enzymes, including those that convert Vitamin D. Recommended forms include magnesium glycinate, citrate, and malate. Magnesium Threonate is mentioned for its potential to cross the blood-brain barrier. Typical supplemental dose is around 300-450mg/day.
• Lutein and Zeaxanthin: Polyphenols important for eye and brain health, found in multivitamins and supplements studied in the AREDS2 trials.
• Exogenous Ketones: Mentioned as a potential intervention for cognitive decline in aging, as seen in some case studies. The ketone monoester used in studies is noted as very expensive.
• Psilocybin: Discussed as a non-addictive alternative to ketamine for treating depression and for its potent anti-inflammatory effects, which can be achieved at sub-perceptual doses.
• Momentous: Brand for NSF-certified creatine, used by Tim.
• Avmacol: The brand of sulforaphane supplement Dr. Patrick gives to her mother.
• Xyrem: Oral prescription solution that may be used to treat excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) in adults and children aged seven years and older with narcolepsy.
• Thorne: Recommended for Meriva Curcumin and NSF-certified Creatine Monohydrate.
• Pure Encapsulations: Recommended for O.N.E. Omega-3 Fish Oil, VESIsorb Vitamin D3, and Magnesium Glycinate.
• Xymogen: Recommended for high-DHA fish oil and Magnesium Threonate.
• Big Berkey: Water filtration system.
• Blue Bottle Coffee: Noted for using plastic-free, sugarcane-lined cups that don’t leach microplastics into hot beverages.

Foods and Beverages

• Broccoli Sprouts: The most potent dietary source of sulforaphane, containing 10-100 times higher levels than mature broccoli plants, with powerful anti-cancer and detoxification properties.
• Sardines and Salmon Roe: Excellent dietary sources of omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA in highly bioavailable phospholipid form, with 40-70% of DHA in salmon roe being phospholipid-bound compared to just 1-3% in regular fish.
• Xylitol Gum/Mints: Sugar alcohol sweetener with proven dental health benefits, reducing harmful oral bacteria and preventing tooth decay when consumed at 6-10 grams daily, though most commercial gum contains problematic “gum base” polymers.
• Heavy Cream / MCT Oil: Fat sources commonly used in “dirty fasting” that have minimal impact on insulin levels compared to protein or carbohydrates, with MCTs rapidly converting to ketones while preserving most fasting benefits.

People

• Dr. Mark Mattson: A neuroscientist and adjunct professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine known for his pioneering research on intermittent fasting and its effects on brain health and neuroplasticity.
• Dr. Valter Longo: A biogerontologist and professor at USC who directs the Longevity Institute and is renowned for his research on fasting, longevity, and the development of the Fasting-Mimicking Diet (FMD).
• Dr. Ben Levine: A cardiovascular exercise physiologist and Distinguished Professor at UT Southwestern who demonstrated that a 2-year exercise program can reverse heart aging by up to 20 years in middle-aged adults.
• Dr. George Brooks: A professor of integrative biology at UC Berkeley who pioneered the “lactate shuttle hypothesis,” revolutionizing our understanding of how lactate serves as a crucial fuel for the brain and muscles during exercise.
• Dr. Darren Candow: A professor at the University of Regina who directs the Aging Muscle and Bone Health Laboratory and is recognized as a leading expert on creatine monohydrate supplementation and its effects on muscle health.
• Dr. John Krystal: A psychiatrist and chair of the Department of Psychiatry at Yale School of Medicine who led the groundbreaking discovery of ketamine’s rapid antidepressant effects, revolutionizing depression treatment.
• Chuck Nichols: A professor of pharmacology at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center who discovered the potent anti-inflammatory effects of psychedelic compounds through novel 5-HT2A receptor mechanisms.
• Kevin Rose: A technology entrepreneur, podcaster, and mutual friend who is known for his early trend identification and has been mentioned in the context of third-party testing fish oil supplements.

Relevant Resources

• FoundMyFitness: Dr. Rhonda Patrick’s science-based website, podcast, and newsletter providing evidence-based health information on nutrition, aging, exercise, and disease prevention through deeper understanding of biology.
• Are Saunas the Next Big Performance-Enhancing “Drug?” by Dr. Rhonda Patrick | Tim Ferriss
• Dr. Rhonda Patrick on Life Extension, Performance, and Much More | The Tim Ferriss Show #12
• Exploring Smart Drugs, Fasting, and Fat Loss — Dr. Rhonda Patrick | The Tim Ferriss Show #237
• Dr. Rhonda Patrick’s Supplement Routine (2025) | FoundMyFitness
• Vitamin D | FoundMyFitness
• Dr. Rhonda Patrick’s Omega-3 Supplementation Guide | FoundMyFitness
• Dr. Mark Mattson on the Benefits of Stress, Metabolic Switching, Fasting, and Hormesis | FoundMyFitness Podcast #66
• Exactly What Happened When We Tried Hugh Jackman’s ’16:8 Diet’ | Men’s Health
• We Did a 10-Day Fast at Buchinger Wilhelmi Clinic So You Don’t Have To | Robb Report
• Intermittent Fasting: Does a New Study Show Downsides — Or Not? | Harvard Health
• How Does VO2 Max Correlate with Longevity? | Peter Attia
• Peter Attia on Zone 2 and Zone 5 Training | Peter Attia
• Facts And Myths Of Male Fertility: Tight Underwear, Hot Tubs, Marijuana, And More | Office for Science and Society | McGill University
• Darren Candow, PhD on the Optimal Creatine Protocol for Strength, Brain, and Longevity | FoundMyFitness Podcast #100
• Reverse Osmosis Water Filter: The most effective filtration technology for removing microplastics and nanoplastics from tap water, with membrane pore sizes capable of filtering particles as small as 0.001 micrometers. Big Berkey systems also provide effective filtration in the 24-26 nanometer range.
• Loose-Leaf Tea and Tea Steeper: Brewing method recommended to avoid the billions of microplastic particles released by plastic tea bags, using stainless steel, glass, or food-grade silicone infusers for a plastic-free tea experience.
• NSF Certified for Sport: Third-party certification program that tests supplements for 290+ banned substances and verifies accurate labeling, ensuring products are free of contaminants and safe for athletic use.
• Sustainability at Blue Bottle: A Timeline | Blue Bottle Coffee Lab
• Alcohol | FoundMyFitness
• Dr. John Krystal — All Things Ketamine, The Most Comprehensive Podcast Episode Ever | The Tim Ferriss Show #625

Relevant Research

• Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements | Annals of Internal Medicine (Mostly debunked through further studies — see below.)
• Third Major Study Finds Evidence That Daily Multivitamin Supplements Improve Memory and Slow Cognitive Aging in Older Adults | Mass General Brigham
• Role of Phosphatidylcholine-DHA in Preventing APOE4-Associated Alzheimer’s Disease | The FASEB Journal
• Association Between Sauna Bathing and Fatal Cardiovascular and All-Cause Mortality Events | JAMA Internal Medicine
• Temperature-Acclimated Brown Adipose Tissue Modulates Insulin Sensitivity in Humans | Diabetes
• Exercise Training Increases Size of Hippocampus and Improves Memory | PNAS
• DHA Supplementation Improved Both Memory and Reaction Time in Healthy Young Adults: A Randomized Controlled Trial | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
• Early Time-Restricted Feeding Improves Insulin Sensitivity, Blood Pressure, and Oxidative Stress Even Without Weight Loss in Men with Prediabetes | Cell Metabolism
• Association of Body Weight with Response to Vitamin D Supplementation and Metabolism | JAMA Network Open
• Sulforaphane Treatment of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) | PNAS
• Sulforaphane Activates Heat Shock Response and Enhances Proteasome Activity Through Up-Regulation of Hsp27 | Journal of Biological Chemistry
• Modulating Cellular Aging in Vitro: Hormetic Effects of Repeated Mild Heat Stress on Protein Oxidation and Glycation | Experimental Gerontology
• Creatine monohydrate pilot in Alzheimer’s: Feasibility, brain creatine, and cognition | Alzheimer’s & Dementia: Translational Research & Clinical Interventions
• Single dose creatine improves cognitive performance and induces changes in cerebral high energy phosphates during sleep deprivation | Nature
• Microplastic contaminations in a set of beverages sold in France | ScienceDirect

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:04:54] Dealing with aging parents and other topics on the table.
• [00:10:43] How a common multivitamin helps reverse cognitive and memory aging.
• [00:12:04] The importance of supplementation — especially as we age.
• [00:13:10] Effectively supplementing with omega-3 fish oil to counter APOE4 and Alzheimer’s risks.
• [00:16:50] The CoQ10 and omega-3 protocol that has helped Rhonda’s father manage Parkinson’s symptoms for nearly a decade.
• [00:19:28] Sulforaphane: a potent NRF2 activator with an unexpected benefit for Rhonda’s mother’s tremors.
• [00:25:34] How Rhonda convinced her mom to start CrossFit and the power of community-based, senior-focused fitness.
• [00:26:52] The earlier the intervention, the better the outcomes.
• [00:32:25] Intermittent fasting vs. extended fasting and my own results.
• [00:44:31] Does fasting destroy muscle mass? Debunking the catabolism fear and understanding the crucial role of the re-feeding phase.
• [00:57:24] “Dirty” fasting: what really happens to autophagy and metabolic benefits when you add a splash of cream or MCT oil to your coffee?
• [01:00:44] VO2 max: the one metric that may predict lifespan more accurately than anything else, and how we work to improve it.
• [01:12:07] How a two-year exercise program reversed heart aging by 20 years in previously sedentary, middle-aged adults.
• [01:16:18] Lactate isn’t the enemy: how vigorous exercise creates a superfuel that protects and grows the brain.
• [01:20:30] The optimal sauna protocol (temperature and frequency) for slashing dementia risk by 66%.
• [01:29:17] If you’re human, you’ll find a use for curcumin.
• [01:30:43] Creatine for cognition: moving beyond the gym with a powerful, science-backed tool for focus and combating sleep deprivation.
• [01:42:41] Still vitamin D deficient despite taking supplements? Here’s the critical cofactor you’re probably missing.
• [01:53:52] Shocking sources of microplastics in our daily lives, including chewing gum and teabags.
• [02:04:10] The uncomfortable truth about “moderate” alcohol consumption, cancer risk, and why the “sick quitter” hypothesis makes most older studies unreliable.
• [02:17:03] The ups and downs of ketamine and psilocybin on cognition and longevity.
• [02:24:19] Parting thoughts and where to find more from Rhonda.

DR. RHONDA PATRICK QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“After two years of taking the multivitamin, they had improved cognition on a battery of different tests that equated to reducing global cognitive aging by about two years. And on top of that, they reduced their episodic aging by five years. Almost five years. It was 4.8 years.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“A 70-year-old makes about four times less vitamin D than their former 20-year-old self.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“There have now been enough studies that have come out looking at cardiorespiratory fitness in the sense of VO2 max and how people with a higher cardiorespiratory fitness have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“People end up eating about 200 fewer calories per day when they’re doing some form of intermittent fasting.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“If you have a low cardiorespiratory fitness and you go anywhere above that from low to low-normal, it’s associated with a two-year increased life expectancy. And people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness actually have a higher all-cause mortality that’s comparable or worse than people with known diseases like type 2 diabetes or cardiovascular disease or smokers, for example. So in other words, being sedentary is a disease. And we need to think about it as a disease, and we should be trying to train to improve our VO2 max.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“Over the last few years, intermittent fasting has kind of gotten a bad rap because people now equate it with, ‘Oh, loss of muscle mass. I’m going to be catabolic.’ Well, in order to be in a repair mode, you actually do need to be in a catabolic mode.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“50 percent of the US population has insufficient levels of magnesium. So you’re talking about a coin toss here, right? One out of two.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick

“A woman has a lifetime risk of one in eight of getting breast cancer. So if you have a room with eight people, one of those women, if you’re at a dinner party, and eight women are there, then one of those women will come down and be diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime. So when you add alcohol consumption on top of that, if you’re talking about moderate alcohol consumption, that risk can go to one in six, which is very significant for lifetime risk.”

— Dr. Rhonda Patrick