by

Tim Ferriss

Lori Gottlieb — The Power of Getting to *Unknow* Yourself (#415)

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Lori Gottlieb sitting on a couch and smiling.
Photo by Shlomit Levy Bard

“Insight is the booby prize of therapy.”

— Lori Gottlieb

Lori Gottlieb (@LoriGottlieb1) is a psychotherapist and author of the New York Times bestseller Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, which is being adapted as a television series by Eva Longoria and the creators of the Emmy and Golden Globe-winning series The Americans. In addition to her clinical practice, she writes the Atlantic’s weekly “Dear Therapist” advice column and contributes regularly to the New York Times and many other publications.

Her recent TED Talk is one of the top 10 most-watched of the year, and she is a sought-after expert in media such as the Today show, Good Morning America, CBS’s Early Show, CNN’s Newsroom, and NPR’s Fresh Air. Her new iHeart podcast, Dear Therapists, produced by Katie Couric, will premiere this year.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can find the transcript of this episode here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

#415: Lori Gottlieb — The Power of Getting to *Unknow* Yourself

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 1 billion professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with another fascinating therapist? Listen to my first conversation with Esther Perel on this podcast in which we discuss polyamory, why happy people cheat, how to find (and convince) mentors who can change your life, what she learned from Holocaust survivors, and much more.

#241: The Relationship Episode: Sex, Love, Polyamory, Marriage, and More (with Esther Perel)

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

  • Connect with Lori Gottlieb:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

SHOW NOTES

  • What story did Lori share on stage with The Moth, and why did she choose this over any other story she could have told? [06:21]
  • What is the hierarchy of pain? [10:55]
  • The difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion, and why there’s a time and place for each. [13:46]
  • How to listen to someone’s story in a way that invites self-reflection. [17:23]
  • As we’re waiting out COVID-19 in isolation with our loved ones for potentially long periods of time, how can we better communicate — and avoid escalating conflict — with each other? [20:26]
  • As a term that can mean different things for different people, how does Lori define therapy, and what might be the benefits of learning how to “unknow” yourself? [22:42]
  • Lori relays a story of her own that vividly illustrates how we all orchestrate our lives to keep certain storylines going — even when they don’t really serve us — and explains why we do this to ourselves. [25:51]
  • What distinguishes a good therapist from a great therapist? [30:12]
  • A memorable time when Lori’s own great therapist improvised to great effect. [32:07]
  • One of Lori’s favorite maxims about her profession: “Insight is the booby prize of therapy.” What does it mean? [33:38]
  • How did Lori’s therapist’s improvisation lead to meaningful behavior modification that broke a self-perpetuated cycle of suffering? [35:43]
  • To Lori, what are the pros and cons of administering therapy in person versus writing advice to a general audience in her Dear Therapist column? Does she ever worry about the consequences of missing the mark or having someone misinterpret her advice? [38:41]
  • What approaches can someone take to better identify their own blind spots, and what advantage does a therapist have over even a well-meaning friend or family member in helping us find these blind spots? [47:15]
  • As someone who doesn’t know me very well, in what ways does Lori think we’re most alike and most different? [55:18]
  • What did Lori’s university-era struggles look like, and how did her educational focus change over this time? How does her work in journalism correlate with her work in psychology? [57:31]
  • When Lori looks back on her life’s chapter changes, which decisions or transitions were the hardest? Did she agonize for an extended time before initiating these changes, or were they quick in the making? [1:04:03]
  • Lori believes that acknowledging life’s hundred-percent mortality rate ultimately makes us happier. How did she come to this conclusion, and what perspectives has she developed as a result? [1:06:56]
  • How does Lori help people get past denial? [1:12:17]
  • What we’re doing to get through the challenging times ahead as society learns to cope with COVID-19. [1:16:24]
  • What book has Lori gifted the most? [1:22:44]
  • How did Lori decide to dedicate her energy to the two big projects going on in her life right now: a television series adapted from her most recent book and a podcast being produced by Katie Couric? [1:25:11]
  • Parting thoughts. [1:29:33]

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