The Random Show, Ice Cold Edition (#146)

I love Monocle! I agree that you have to really focus and single task in order to get anything done. This is why I love to travel abroad WITHOUT my phone! It feels like going back to my childhood. A little dangerous. A lot thrilling. I like the random episodes, feels like talking to my friends.

Hey Tim, big fan ,blah,blah,blah. Love your work etc,etc. You asked about effective ways to avoid using ice for ice cold emmersions, this might be your answer. It's called a vortex generator and it seems like this guy has done some nice work. http://revitaetechnologies.com/inventions/aqua-vortex-tube-make-hot-and-cold-water-using-free-water-pressure/ P.S. I know your really busy (or not ) but a personal e-mail reply from you would be awesome. A phone call would be even better. If you want I can fly out to Nekker to show you and Ricky how to make some real money. LMFAO !

I signed for Kevin's The Journal but did not receive the sample issue.

Love it. Thanks for sharing.

Hey Tim, is there a video version? I didn't see it on your YouTube channel.

Where's the video?

Some liquor stores have a water circulating wine barrel that circulates water around your drink of choice and cools it in 5 minutes while you shop around. It'd be cool to see how that can be adapted for a tub! There is also a device called a wort chiller used in brewing as well as another device called an immersion probe (great name). Runner up idea would be to fill an extra freezer with those long lasting ice packs =)

But i want a video!!! Please guys, i really enjoy watching Tim talk!!! Pleaaase!

Try leaving close to a frozen lake with a swimming area. The water is always 4 degrees Celsius in the winter. Swim with or without going to the sauna first. Try infra red sauna for 45 minutes to an hour with cold shower brakes in between. You can use your phone inside there without getting too hot.

Hey Tim! I'd love to hear you talk about any experiences with yoga! Thanks!!

What is the name of Dom D’Agostino's podcast that Kevin mentions?

Ferriss – we manage Tim Tim Talk Talk not having video, but the Random Show without video is like Kevin without Toaster.

Tim I'd love to know about hot & cold contrast showers and their effect in muscle soreness and fat loss

I love these random episodes. It's good to see you and Kevin at it again, Tim! I hope to see more of these.

Lifestyle advice from Aristotle to Great Alexander, well documented in many ancient books among them in Plutarch's Parallel lives: "Light clothes, plain diet, outdoors exercise and cold showers, this is the ideal way of life"

Tim, you probably never respond here but I'll leave a question anyway… For cold baths and ending showers cold. Did you ever do this before reading studies? I've always been drawn since a kid to jumping in cold water and ending hot showers cold. I wonder if that means anything like an a cellular level.

Cool episode. Invite me to join next time. You don't know me but I'd be fun. I'm from Colorado, we could do a weed episode. More to the point, finding non-ice places here (in the Bay Area) is tough. Haven't tried the Russians in SF but just came from Immersion in Palo Alto. Dude this stuff has changed me. I've taken your advice, re-learned Dutch on Memrise and traveled to see Wim personally last year (the class was taught in Dutch). Thanks for the great advice in the last year through the Interwebs. It's been FUN.

Hi Tim In chemical manufacturing we use chillers to control the temperature in reactors. Julabo is one brand. Ciao for now. Peter

Tim Where can I get Body Quick? I can't find anything even close. It was the best. PB

Ya gotta learn how to say sorel correctly, timtim. Emphasis on the "el", "sore-EL". From a Yooper…….

is there a video? If so can you please include the link or reply with it? I used to love watching the Random show on YouTube. It isn't the same just listening to it…

As always great show sir. I would love to learn a bit more about dry needling. Have you tried it?

In response to your question of the day, I'm curious about self improvement techniques that could be implemented by busy people with "9 to 5" jobs. I've listened to your morning routine podcast and I would love to do all those things, but it's not practical for me and "normal" people who have to be at work early. I typically wake up at 6AM and am out the door by 6:20 to try and beat traffic. I get home at 5:30, and after doing chores, cooking, eating dinner, cleaning up, and taking care of my newborn, I don't have much time for myself. I think some tips for people like me with "normal" schedules would be great.

Love the Random Show, but I do miss the video. I hope you bring it back.

Tim, would love to hear more about what you have found in regards to seeding gut bacteria after heavy antibiotic use!

The lighting and the cameras on tripods in the posted photo led me to assume that this was a video. I see from the comments that I am not the only confused fan. For what it's worth, I certainly prefer a video format.

Olá ! eu sou brasileira e gosto muito dos seus post's 👍👍 Você entende português ? Você tem ideias de publicar seus livros em português ? Gostaria de saber se virá ao Brazil? Obrigada Ani

I think your interviewing Ray Dalio would be fascinating.

Finally It's been awhile since the last one! I listened this over a nice bottle of wine and enjoyed it very much! And, yes, I want a video too!!

Tim, You requested information regarding an ice bath without ice. I have an excellent resource for answers to any question that you might have: UCLUE.COM. This group of researchers used to be associated with Google Answers years ago before Google retired it. This is some information from their website: Welcome to Uclue, a paid answers service. Here's how it works: Ask a question Choose a price to reflect the value of the answer to you Fund your question using PayPal Respond to any clarification requests from Uclue Researchers, and await your answer! If your question is unanswered after 14 days, you get an automatic refund If you are unsatisfied for ANY reason, click "Refund" for a no-hassles refund You are always in control Customer satisfaction is very high, and Uclue has many repeat customers For more details, see the FAQ. I am not associated with them, but have used their services.

Absolutely love the show, thanks for this, but +1 for video

Excellent episode! Really like your way of living 🙂

My mom's been using YakTrax for years for trail running in CO. They're awesome! Glad you found them.

regarding TED Talk, “What Really Matters at the End of Life”, we cannot compare what is most important when you are at death bed and when you are in your life. Context is different. Its logical that work is not important at death bed, because you know you dont need money at that time.but in life work maybe is more important as you have to live.

Great to see yet another Random Show, but I really do prefer a video version instead of a podcast.

Would absolutely love to hear more podcasts with Dr.Kelly Starrett! Let's hear what he's been working on since Episodes 3 and 64. Carl Paoli would also be great!

Yak trax except on marble!

I volunteer to record your video next time! Miss your gorgeous smile Tim! But you guys were definitely more relaxed on audio. Now I need to check out this Bumble.

Question of the day… Please tim,do what has not been done to the final limit of what the science has found out…as the people ask you about weight loss…plleeeease find the musts and the to dos for improving the immune system for those with an immune system thats gone out of ballance like after lime disease or multiple pneumonias. This IS a personal request but if you google it,youll find close to nothing practical or usefull to those in need…

Hey Tim/Kevin, long time listener and follower, first time commenter. On ice baths, did you investigate further on the Cryotherapy that Tony Robbins uses (was mentioned during your interview with him in 2014)?

Tim Ferriss put out the Four Hour Body to 1. Get Female attention 2. Make sure they get in shape before he matches with them on Bumble

Tim I did the cold water ending for the first time today…. less than 30 seconds. Completely couldn't breath. Can't wait for tomorrow to do it again!

No Video=Fail

There are coolers for aquariums that may work to hold a large quantity of water (such as a bathtub) at a specific cold temperature.

What about http://www.coldtub.com they are used in training rooms and not too large.

Here is small model. http://www.coldtub.com/models/icekube-blue

RE: Cold Exposure technology I am in Week 5 of Wim Hof Method and live in SF/Bay. I both have an idea for the technology you researched and am in contact with the Hof's about starting a Center in SF as Wim stated he desires to create in the interview with Tim. ***For your reference on who I am, here is a short MTV Cribs style video interview with a space i co-created called "The Center SF" What would be the best medium for sharing this information with you and/or Kevin?

Hilarious, great show. Thanks for the Bumble App / BJ Miller’s TED Talk recommendation.

Which were the shoes Kevin mentioned? He mentioned 2 different kinds.

Tim, can you talk about the role of reducing muscle inflammation while recovering as it related to exercising? can we take any food supplements that aid in reducing inflammation or delays the onset of muscle soreness? i understand about BCAA and everything but i am really trying to stay away from processed/unnatural ingredients. thanks, MM

On the ice bath, what I have been doing and it seems to be working so far is cryogenics. You can go to a spa and do it, or purchase your own machine. Many athletes are doing it and Tony Robbins liked it so much he bought his own machine.

tech question…what are the video cameras used for this get together?

Love your stuff Tim. However…Yellowstone is mostly in Wyoming not Montana…

Hey Tim…drove from Pittsburgh to Chicago yesterday so listened to Graveyard Book (full cast edition) and it was AMAZING! I love a great book and Graveyard was terrific…Thank you for your recommendation.

Tim, I was also a fan of yak tracks for a long time… Until I wore them long term and the rubber inside the spring fell apart – no bueno. A more durable substitute is the Icetrekkers diamond grip – [Moderator: link removed]

Tim, On the topic of cold bath without ice and ability to keep constant tempature… Check out icool tubs (http://www.icoolsport.com). I came across this in an interview with Laird Hamilton. He has one in his garage.

These guys make a "cold spa" I've used on horses: http://coldspa.com/ColdSpa.html . And if you ever need SERIOUS traction you should find Kahtoola microspikes – they stay on and keep you up on just about any kind of Ice (watch out on your garage floor however) . I live in Alaska and gave up on Yak Trax a long time ago.

Tim if you are looking to take the equivalent of a ice cold bath without the ice do like the CIA. Wear a soaked T-shirt and stand in front of an air conditioner.

For those looking to go deeper on the likes of cold-therapy, intermittent fasting, longevity and sauna-therapy check out Rhonda Patrick’s content (as mentioned on the show) on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/foundmyfitness. Fascinating to understand the mechanisms behind how it all works 🙂

I love with Kevin is on the podcast, the shows have a great flow and your humor really comes out. Plus, the recommendations we get when you are together is great.Headspace Way of Life, Wim Hoff course and more. ( I was actually trying the breathing from the Ice man yesterday!). Good luck on the new podcast and the newsletter, I subsribed to both. cheers Jer from Cancun

Great show. Check out Dr. Lawrence Wilson @ drlwilson.com for more info on sardines. He is crazy about those little guys. Regards, Orla

Tim, Kevin mentioned, at random so search bar doesn't bring up, an Arizona hospice that I need the name of for a fan of yours. Jim M., from Las Vegas, in amazing shape and health at 72-years-young, was diagnosed two weeks ago with fourth-stage pancreatic cancer spread to liver. We're both stunned since he never drank (wine with dinner occasionally), never smoked and we actually met 15 years ago at Red Mountain health resort-he's worked out 6 days a week for so many years. Rather than the VA hospice, we'd both appreciate the name of the Arizona hospice where a different approach to passing through this life and starting the next will make this uplifting instead of depressing. Appreciate it greatly. Anne James

What was the teeth whitening/remineralization tip?

Hi Tim, Laird Hamilton was on Ben Greenfield's podcast a couple of weeks ago and mentioned a device, just like the one you said must exist, to cool a pool with no ice that he uses in Kauai. Check it out: http://www.icoolsport.com/products

How can we get old newsletters from either Kevin or Tim, are they archived somewhere? I would also be interested to see the other newsletter subscriptions of both Kevin and Tim.

It seems from reading that the vagus nerve loves cold . regulates everything . Heart and tons of other areas of the body.

Bumble not good anymore. Not enough return for the investment. First it was interesting to have the tables turned, and come up with fun opening lines. But I find that guys on there are doing what they do on tinder and they just swipe everyone, so I get a lot of matches. Then I spend time crafting a personalized message and never get replies, because they just want to see who bites. Over it.

Tim, I really appreciated your matter-of-fact and helpful tone and personality in this podcast. It was really easy to listen to and enjoy.

Hi Tim and Ferriss people Heard the call for better ways to chill a tub. Scanned the notes and might have missed something, but this might be a neat solution. http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1994/51863/Home_Brew/wort_cooler.JPG This is a basic system used for cooling wort in the home brewing process. It would be easy to replicate with a modified copper tubing system that would fit Tim's tub instead of a brew kettle. Bags of ice would still be necessary, but a modified cooler would conserve more ice than just tossing it in the tub every time. If you need more info, get in touch! I'd post more, but in school/work/family= busy. If this sparks interest I'll find the time. Cheers G

If you like Italo Calvino, also check out "The Nonexistent Knight and The Cloven Viscount"

love how Kevin considers Tim a pioneer of footwear…the Yak Tracks and similar have been around for years!

Years ago I did a cleanse, a key component of which was a hot-and-cold shower routine. It worked like this: 30-45 seconds of the hottest water you could stand, followed instantly by a similar interval of cold water, then repeat the cycle six more times for a total of seven hot/cold cycles. That first blast of cold was brutal, the second not quite as bad, and the third actually felt pretty good. By the seventh cycle, and much to my surprise, I felt like a million bucks. Apparently (as explained in the cleanse materials), the alternating hot and cold create a bellows effect in your circulatory system. I dunno about that, but what I do know is that, for me anyway, this routine is the simplest, most dramatically restorative ten-minute therapy of which I know–it's cured hangovers and chronic shin-splints, it speeds muscle recovery, gives me energy for hours, lifts my mood–I could go on and on. I still do three or four of these showers a week, or whenever I need a lift.

For Ice Baths and bagged ice. Put the ice into the bath in the bags and weight them down. Keeping the ice in the bags maintains the low temperature and it doesn't melt so quick. Then when you are ready allowing for distractions, cut the bags open remove the packaging. The bags will have already cooled the water and opening them chills it down quicker and you are there to climb right in.

Hi Tim and Kevin. Locker room part was hilarious. It must feel weird to come across with readers in such places. I have been trying hot/cold showers since I listened to this episode a week ago. I get horrible headache after the shower when I do hot/cold at the end. I pinched a nerve badly about 6 months ago when I was exercising. So sometimes after heavy psychical work, i.e. exercise or very long walks, my left side hurts. I feel the same pain but much much worse after hot/cold shower. Maybe it is adjusting process, since I started it only a week ago. I feel like it is confusing my pinched nerve and that sucker is taking revenge from me big time. I'm going to doctor for pinched nerve (I kept procrastinating it) soon. Lets see what he will say about the effect of hot/cold shower on it. I may update my post later. I have never been a fan of those dating apps. Different strategy but similar outcomes. I am unsure if those platforms are the right places to meet the right people. I just have a bad feeling about them, like the bad feeling you got before you had that fish ( ref: new John Waitzkin episode). Best xx

Hi Tim. Would love to see some content on reducing/eliminating DOMS, as well as your take on Remembering the Kanji or how to learn all 常用漢字. I've applied 80-20 and get by just fine, but would like to take it to the next level. Regarding the ice solution, wouldn't combining the concept of an epsom salt soak with an ice bath 1) reduce the freezing temperature of the water and 2) provide benefits of epsom salts?

Have you tried the Breatheology program by Stig Severenson? I was considering it.

Maybe connect this heat exchanger with a submersible wort chiller: https://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php

A video is so much better…I guess no video?

I'd like you to interview an active Scientologists who has benefitted from it. I know it's controversial and many people have negative opinions about it but mostly disaffected people who've long since left or people who haven't subjectively experienced it. I've been an active participant for 46 years and it's not only helped me immensely but I've performed "miracles" on people such as ridding them of psychosomatic illnesses. If toy are interested if be more than willing to talk w you about it

I think we can all agree the lack of a video is a bummer, lol.

Okay, being from Wyoming, I have to hit you with a correction – 96% of Yellowstone Park is in Wyoming. There is 3% in Montana, and 1% in Idaho. so, when you went deep into the park, you spent most of your time in Wyoming. Even if you started in Montana

Hey guys. Check out this at-home ice bath company: http://www.icoolsport.com/cartpage/viewproduct/965/MiCool_Smallest_Ever (some also look to work as heaters). Have you studied the effectiveness of podcasts recorded in ice baths? PS-glad to hear you had a great time in my hometown, Bozeman, MT.

BEST COLD TUB – Hi Tim and Kevin – I work at a University in the Sports Medicine department(Amateur ultramarathoner, newbie triathalete, farmer, ect and, huge fan of the show). These guys have the piece of equipment that you guys are looking for. http://www.grimmscientific.com/

Hey Tim, in my high school locker room we had an ice bath like you are describing. Some kind of engine and no physical ice, I believe it was called a "whirlpool". I found a similar one online http://www.medical-supplies-equipment-company.com/rehab/product/60-gallon-stationary-hi-boy-whirlpool_23202.html We usually kept it at 50 degrees Fahrenheit, hope this helps!

Dear Tim, following your request about the ice-baths with no ice-cubes, i thought of 3 possible ideas : 1. A friend of mine told me not long ago that Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid has a special bath-system in his house that can change the water from boiling hot to ice cold in a very short period of time. You can probably get a hold of him or his people 😉 2. Maybe use/create one of those marble stones they use to chill whisky/wine. something similiar to this – http://www.irishwhiskeystones.com/. You will probably need to use a lot of them but in the long run it will probably be cheaper and more convenient than regular ice cubes. 3. build a granite bath-tub and cool it in the same way the guys at Cold Stone Creamery do. Good luck and thank you for everything that you do.

Why are you topping your wine my friend

Here is a hypothetical solution, but it might be too dangerous for your ice baths. Take a heavy duty chest freezer and convert it to a refrigerator. Example of that process: http://www.geeksonhome.com/how_5684552_convert-chest-freezer-refrigerator.html. Have a metal fabricator make a stainless steel liner to fit inside. You could then fill it with water and keep it just above freezing.

Hey Tim, Re: cold therapy, he is an alternative stand alone, portable unit (although still requires ice, and not complete submersion): http://www.gameready.com/

hey tim ever heard of these? I'm considering buying one but can't find much ref material. https://furohealth.com/products/hyoga-cold-plunge-tub

Maybe a day late and a dollar short, but I just listened to the Random Show. Here is a device that we use during cardiac surgery when replacing ascending aortas: http://www.cszmedical.com/blanketrol-iii Circulatory arrest for open heart surgery is fascinating stuff and most likely right up your alley. Investigate if you get the urge. The above mentioned machine is new Korean car spendy. However, a second hand version is super doable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Sub-Zero-CSZ-Blanketrol-3-Smart-Hyper-Hypothermia-Warming-System-/231918689724?hash=item35ff6e5dbc:g:KmYAAOSwKfVXFnm7 Just get one of the resuable adult sized Plastipads, throw it in the tub, flip the switch and you would have 39º water in no time. Don't forget, the Buddha was a deadbeat dad. Cheers!

Simple. Chest freezer full of water. I have a 15.6 cu ft. Will get to 32 degrees and only requires a few hours plugged in every other day to maintain it. Happy hoffing 🙂

I just spoke with a pool designer who said he would be interested in seeing if he could make a sous vide style ice bath. He said it would be a fun challenge. I believe he would be worth contacting if you want to see if you can make this work, if you have not already.

Tim, Regarding Ice baths. I work for a large sports centre in Australia. We run recovery centres in our pool complexes, most of the athletes do hot/colds as part of their recovery programs. Without getting too technical a basic setup would be a hot spa (36-38C) and a cold plunge pool (6-7C), to heat one and cool the other we use a small heat-pump unit which is essentially like a reverse cycle air-conditioner. The first law of thermodynamic is essentially you cannot create or destroy energy, only transform it from one form to another form. So these heat pumps use both sides of the compressor system, cold side to chill the plunge and the exhaust side to heat, pre warm, the spa.(It is then further heated with gas hot water heaters to get full temp). So depending on scale and how far you want to go with the setup it would be possible to plumb in a heat pump that could act as your home hot water system and also chill another vessel to act as a plunge pool. Another similar setup could be a flotation tank setup with the heat-pump(refrigeration unit) cooling the water and just ejecting the heat outside to atmosphere. I have seen quick chill systems using liquid nitrogen in a closed coil system that would be then submersed in the water, I think this would be effective but costly, potentially dangerous and hard to maintain. Some food for thought anyway.

Yo Tim, Have you not heard of cryotherapy? Dave Asprey and many other biohackers are all over it. Surely there's a reason you didn't mention it, as I'm sure you've heard of it. Will

For ice baths why not a chest freezer, can set almost any temp you want. Take out all the shelves etc. Set it up in bath tub so can easily run drain hose into drain and use the cold water tap input. Just keep water in there w/ lid closed when not using can keep temp just above freezing. Open lid climb in long as you want then out and close lid until next time. Easy to drain and clean whenever and thermal mass of water should keep electric use within reasonable amount.

I am an airline pilot and sometimes the 737s I fly are older versions so the air conditioning is not so great in the summertime. I bring a "no sweat" ice bag with me, fill it with ice and place it on my upper back and it really brings my core temperature down. I'm wondering if that would work in this case for sleep…doing about 10 min before bed? This would boil it down to the minimum effective dose and save time, money and energy drawing an icewater bath every night… if it worked. Following your lead, Tim, I'll experiment on myself and see what happens. However, I just wondered if you had tried that yourself and if it was effective or not? Also in your research, did you find that the entire body need to be cooled down in order to actively restrict bloodflow to the extremities, or was it enough to bring your core temperature down? Thanks again, Tim, I appreciate your simple-elegant solutions. John

Maybe this is the year of little things and that's okay! Love that!

Cool! Still can't find the video

Tim you need to systematically lengthen your Achilles tendon. That will fix your heel/plantar issues. Been a fan of yours since 2007. Keep up the great work! Yurik

Got it

no video this time Chris

Swipe right, Tim.

My physiotherapist back in Adelaide, Australia was a dry needler. It's a really effective way to break up spasming muscle tissue. Did I hear it's illegal in the United States? It's a valid, normal therapy in Australia. Doesn't hurt nearly as much as you think and the relief is unbelievable. Would love to know of a physio here in Denver that does it

An alternative to buckets of ice is a tough ask. A tub of water has a ton of thermal energy… if we built a machine that could chill 35 gallons in 10 minutes, it would take the combined electricity-draw of 20 homes to power. We could do this more slowly and store the energy, but that is technically what you are doing when you are using ice.

Tim, to your question on innovations in freezing—-are you on Wim's Facebook page? Some cool things pop up there every now and then. There's a guy that just posted a video about how he converted one of those horizontal meat freezers into an ice bath. Lots of opportunities for consumer innovation, and hopefully not so much in terms of electrocution, but I have my doubts. 🙂

Any way to edit a post here? I meant to say I love it when Kevin is on the podcast lol

Michael, check out Ray Cronise TEDex talk on this, he is the guy behind Tim's experiments with cold baths. Good luck! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrQ_ldCwKUQ

Agreed!

Tim is a hot-shot now..screen time costs money ?? 🙁 The Tim Ferris Random show instead of just "The Random show" ? this was a weird one.

It is interesting that there was no mention of cryotherapy- the "new age" ice bath… without the ice. Interested in learning more about whole body cryotherapy? Let me know!

I'd say this is the way to go as well. We actually use a couple of these things (basically a reverse immersion heater / heat exchanger) in a couple of the industrial installations where we need a large amount of heat removed in a very short amount of time – but only very intermittently. And where the temperature needs to be set quite accurately & above freezing… http://www.packocooling.com/en/products/packo-milk-cooling/packo-ice-water-cooling/packo-ice-builder The ones for the dairy industry might be a tad spendy, but nothing a well placed Kickstarter campaign couldn't fix, I guess.