Ben Patrick (KneesOverToesGuy) — 20-Minute Workouts That Produce Wild Results, From Chronic Knee Pain to Dunking Basketballs, Lessons from Charles Poliquin, Bulletproofing the Lower Body, and More (#835)

Ben Patrick, better known as “Kneesovertoesguy” (@kneesovertoesguy), is the founder of Athletic Truth Group (ATG), an online and brick-and-mortar training system rooted in rehabilitative strength and joint health. After years of debilitating knee and shin pain (including multiple surgeries), he rebuilt his body and performance, going from a sub-20″ vertical to a documented 42″ leap. Over the past 15 years, Ben has coached thousands of clients (from weekend warriors to pro athletes) across 50+ countries, sharing his stepwise method via social media and ATG’s coaching system. He is the author of Knee Ability Zero and other books on fitness and recovery. His mission now: democratize pain-free movement by making tools, systems, and education accessible to everyone, especially high-school students.

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Transcripts

• This episode
• All episodes

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Ben Patrick:

ATG Coaching | ATG Equipment | YouTube | Instagram

How-To Videos / Programs from Ben

• Ben’s Minimalistic Program with Sets and Reps

Gear & Training Tools

• ATG Backward/Forward “Resisted Treadmill”: Indoor analog to sled work.
• ATG Slant Board: For heel-elevated squats / ankle mobility work.
• ATG Tib Bar: For tibialis (front-shin) strengthening — an evolution from Bob Gajda’s dynamic axial resistance device (DARD).
• ATG Wrist Bar: Plate-loadable handle for forearm pronation/supination and elbow prehab/rehab.
• Torque TANK M1 Push Sled: Space-efficient friction sled.

Books & Recommended Reading

• I Followed the Knees Over Toes Guy’s Advice — And It Worked | Outside Magazine
• 5-Bullet Friday
• The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• The Perils of Audience Capture | The Prism
• Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Timothy Ferriss

Training Methods & Concepts

• ATG Split Squat: Front foot elevated, deep-range knee-over-toe progression to build end-range strength.
• Backward Sled Drags: High-rep, low-risk quad/tendon conditioning; circulation before deeper knee work.
• Barry Ross Protocol: Minimalist strength-training method that uses very low-rep, high-intensity deadlifts (typically 2–3 sets of 2–3 reps) with full recovery to build maximum strength and speed without adding excess muscle mass.
• 80/20 Rule (Pareto Principle): Roughly 80% of results come from 20% of efforts or causes.
• VO2 Max “4×4” intervals: e.g., ~4 minutes on / ~4 minutes easy × 4–6 rounds; described using sled variants.
• Minimum Effective Dose (MED): Do the least to trigger the desired adaptation; sustained compliance beats maximal plans (pertains across training/nutrition).
• Myofascial Release & Active Release Techniques (ART): Modalities I first explored via Poliquin.
• Occam’s Protocol: A strength training program to maximize muscle growth in a short period.
• “Strength is gained in the range it is trained.”: Poliquin maxim (deep-range strength for durable mobility).
• Wall Tibialis Raises: No-equipment shin work to balance lower leg, help knees/ankles/feet.
• Westside Barbell Sled Culture: Louie Simmons’ parking-lot drags, prowlers, bands/chains lineage (historical context for backward sleds).
• Zone 2 Training: Steady aerobic base building; why/targets.

People

• Peter Attia
• Mark Bell
• Gary Brecka
• Al Capone
• Allyson Felix
• Bob Gajda
• Jerzy Gregorek
• Nsima Inyang
• Byron Katie
• Charles Poliquin
• Barry Ross
• Arnold Schwarzenegger
• Dr. Seuss
• Louie Simmons
• Christopher Sommer
• Balaji S. Srinivasan
• Dave Tate
• Mark Twain
• Andrew Zimmern

Organizations

• ATG (Athletic Truth Group)
• EliteFTS
• Torque Fitness
• Westside Barbell
• YMCA

Related Tim Ferriss Show Episodes

• Inside the World of SuperTraining — Mark Bell | The Tim Ferriss Show #252
• The Lion of Olympic Weightlifting, 62-Year-Old Jerzy Gregorek (Also Featuring: Naval Ravikant) | The Tim Ferriss Show #228
• Nsima Inyang, Mutant and Movement Coach — True Athleticism at Any Age, Microdosing Movement, “Rope Flow” as a Key Unlock, Why Sleds and Sandbags Matter, and Much More | The Tim Ferriss Show #816
• Charles Poliquin on Strength Training, Shredding Body Fat, and Increasing Testosterone and Sex Drive | The Tim Ferriss Show #91
• Charles Poliquin — His Favorite Mass-Building Program, His Nighttime Routine For Better Sleep, and Much More | The Tim Ferriss Show #198
• Christopher Sommer — The Secrets of Gymnastic Strength Training | The Tim Ferriss Show #158
• Christopher Sommer — The Secrets of Gymnastic Strength Training, Part Two: Home Equipment, Weighted Stretches, and Muscle-Ups | The Tim Ferriss Show #180
• Balaji Srinivasan on The Future of Bitcoin and Ethereum, How to Become Noncancelable, the Path to Personal Freedom and Wealth in a New World, the Changing Landscape of Warfare, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #506
• Balaji Srinivasan — Centralized China vs Decentralized World, The DeFi Matrix, Ascending vs Descending Trends, Bitcoin Mining as Energy Storage, Reputational Civil War, and Maximalism vs. Optimalism | The Tim Ferriss Show #547
• Balaji S. Srinivasan — 5–10-Year Predictions, How to Start a New Country, Society-as-a-Service (SaaS), Bitcoin Maximalism, Memetic Warfare, How Prices Are Born, Moral Flippenings, The One Commandment, and The Power of Missionary over Mercenary | The Tim Ferriss Show #606
• Andrew Zimmern on Simple Cooking Tricks, Developing TV, and Addiction | The Tim Ferriss Show #40

TIMESTAMPS

• [00:02:32] How Ben went from Old Man Patrick to Knees Over Toes Guy.
• [00:06:37] Backward sled dragging for safe strength building and rehab.
• [00:13:14] Full range of motion squatting (deep squats vs. 90-degree limitation).
• [00:16:30] “Strength is gained in the range it is trained.” — Charles Poliquin
• [00:18:50] ATG split squat (front foot elevated split squat).
• [00:19:53] Heel elevation and counterbalancing techniques.
• [00:24:26] Ben’s mother’s transformation — from hip deterioration to sprinting at age 71.
• [00:27:36] Ben’s vertical jump progression — unable to grab rim in high school to dunking at 34.
• [00:28:14] Most effective exercises Ben’s mom might recommend.
• [00:29:54] Ben and I reflect on what Charles Poliquin (RIP) gave to us.
• [00:36:36] How backwards sled pulling became a revered exercise.
• [00:39:12] Mr. Universe Bob Gajda’s contributions to Ben’s regimen.
• [00:42:16] ATG prioritizes offering American-made products when possible.
• [00:43:14] Tibialis raises without equipment.
• [00:45:37] Why I included the ATG wrist bar in a recent 5-Bullet Friday.
• [00:48:32] Ben’s videos he most recommends.
• [00:54:48] Applying the minimum effective dose (MED) for maximum results in any endeavor.
• [00:59:55] What I would include in The 4-Hour Body if it were written or revised today.
• [01:01:13] A space-saving alternative for people who want to enjoy the benefits of sled work.
• [01:01:57] Real examples of high-yield workouts that require a low investment of time.
• [01:05:59] Ben’s basketball warmup protocols.
• [01:06:59] Regularly skip leg day? Try Arnold Schwarzenegger’s one simple trick.
• [01:08:49] Maintaining integrity in the ever-fickle world of content creation.
• [01:32:18] Parting thoughts.

BEN PATRICK QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“I had a high school basketball coach who started calling me Old Man. I was so stiff. It would take me so long to warm up compared to other players.”
— Ben Patrick

“In the 1970s, exercise science was becoming a thing in school, and they found that when the knee goes over the toe, then there’s more pressure on the knee. So what went into textbooks was showing when you exercise, don’t let your knee over your toes. [But] think about stepping down the stairs and stop. You take a step downstairs, stop. You’re loading your knee over your toes, every single step you take downstairs.”
— Ben Patrick

“So the first thing that I could tell that allowed me to get off the painkillers was dragging a sled backwards.”
— Ben Patrick

“I try to be really careful to never lie in a YouTube title.”
— Ben Patrick

“My whole philosophy is just to have balanced ability in the body—forward, backward, high positions, low positions, lower legs, upper legs.”
— Ben Patrick

“Elevating your heels a bit can help people get lower on a squat, and holding a weight out in front of you reduces the pressure on the knee.”
— Ben Patrick

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Want to hear another episode with the coach who inspired Ben’s breakthrough? Listen to my second conversation with Charles Poliquin, whose radical knees-over-toes philosophy helped Ben overcome chronic knee pain and get off painkillers. We discuss his favorite mass-building program, nighttime routines for better sleep, how to differentiate terrible trainers from the best, and much more.