Tim Ferriss

December 12, 2024

Legendary Inventor Danny Hillis (Plus Kevin Kelly) — Unorthodox Lessons from 400+ Patents, Solving the Impossible, Real Al vs. “AI,” Hiring Richard Feynman, Working with Steve Jobs, Creating Parallel Computing, and Much More (#782)

“It may be easier to actually make intelligence than to understand intelligence.”
— Danny Hillis

Danny Hillis is an inventor, scientist, author, and engineer. While completing his doctorate at MIT, he pioneered the parallel computers that are the basis for the processors used for AI and most high-performance computer chips. He has more than 400 issued patents, covering parallel computers; disk arrays; cancer diagnostics and treatment; various electronic, optical, and mechanical devices; and the pinch-to-zoom display interface. He is a co-founder of The Long Now Foundation and the designer of its 10,000-year mechanical clock.

Danny has founded multiple companies, but his only regular job was as the first Disney Fellow at Disney Imagineering. He has published scientific papers in Science, Nature, Modern Biology, and International Journal of Theoretical Physics and written extensively on technology for Newsweek, Wired, and Scientific American. He is the author of The Pattern on the Stone: The Simple Ideas That Make Computers Work and Connection Machine. He is now a founding partner with Applied Invention, working on new ideas in cybersecurity, medicine, and agriculture.

Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is the founding executive editor of WIRED magazine, the former editor and publisher of the Whole Earth Review, and a bestselling author of books on technology and culture, including Excellent Advice for Living; The Inevitable; What Technology Wants; and Vanishing Asia, his three-volume photo-book set that captures West, Central, and East Asia. Kevin is the author of the popular essay “1000 True Fans.” Subscribe to Kevin’s newsletter, Recomendo, at recomendo.com. Every edition features 6 brief personal recommendations of cool stuff.

Please enjoy!

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The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#782: Legendary Inventor Danny Hillis (Plus Kevin Kelly) — Unorthodox Lessons from 400+ Patents, Solving the Impossible, Real Al vs. 'AI', Hiring Richard Feynman, Working with Steve Jobs, Creating Parallel Computing, and Much More

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Want to hear the last time Kevin Kelly was on this show? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed Kevin’s long bet against the human population, resurrecting extinct species, active optimism vs. passive optimism, Kevin’s $20 time machine, the “dumbsmarten” future of AI, tips for traveling with children, the joys of being a tourist in one’s own town, sabbaticals, and much more.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Danny Hillis:

Applied Invention

Connect with Kevin Kelly:

Website | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube

SHOW NOTES

[07:56] How Danny and Kevin first met through Stewart Brand.
[09:58] The funniest person who ever opened Danny’s interview box of unusual objects.
[14:01] Danny’s transition to Disney as a Disney Fellow and Vice President of Imagineering.
[19:12] The contrast between engineering and artistic approaches to problem-solving.
[28:56] The development of parallel computing and founding Thinking Machines.
[37:15] The three criteria by which projects are chosen at Applied Invention.
[40:36] Zero-trust packet routing (ZPR) and the future of cybersecurity.
[46:46] Learning by “hanging out” with experts like Seymour Papert, Marvin Minsky, and Richard Feynman.
[59:20] Danny’s work in biotechnology and cancer research with David Agus.
[01:07:44] Staying sustainable with systems-oriented thinking in agriculture — as nature intended.
[01:16:10] Danny’s superpower.
[01:17:48] Homeschooling, education on the move, and the influence of Mrs. Wilner.
[01:22:00] The failure of Thinking Machines and other regrets/surprises.
[01:26:00] The “Entanglement” that blurs natural and technological boundaries.
[01:30:54] The current state of AI versus true intelligence.
[01:34:34] How AI may help humanity better understand its place on the intelligence spectrum.
[01:39:42] What the future looks like to a short-term pessimist/long-term optimist.
[01:50:50] The cone of silence we never heard from again.
[01:53:10] Debugging dementia and other diseases.
[01:58:05] The MRI alternative Danny’s tackling.
[02:00:51] Why don’t we have a freezer version of the consumer microwave oven?
[02:01:23] Danny’s place in pinch-to-zoom iPhone innovation history.
[02:04:51] The pros and cons of patents for inventors and society.
[02:08:01] Inventors Danny finds inspiring.
[02:10:04] Danny’s cause-and-effect heresy.
[02:14:47] Quantum computing and its implications.
[02:18:34] The scientific pursuit of understanding consciousness.
[02:23:00] The question Danny asks himself before investing time in a project.
[02:25:26] Danny’s 10,000-year billboard.
[02:29:49] Parting thoughts.

MORE DANNY HILLIS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“What the inventor does is actually a very small piece of it. What society does is it creates these preconditions for invention. And once those preconditions are in place, then it’s just a matter of putting together the puzzle pieces and making it work.”
— Danny Hillis

“I’ve also developed the ability to search out the people who really know the thing and hang out with them. … It’s not that I know things other people don’t, but maybe I know a different combination of things that other people do know, and I’m kind of willing to learn the things I don’t know and have a technique of doing it by just hanging out with people who are smarter than I am.”
— Danny Hillis

“Intelligence is a very complicated multifactored thing like life. It’s not just one thing. At the beginnings of AI, we thought the things that were hard for us to do were the intelligence. … As it turns out … the hard part was the stuff that we were so good at, we didn’t even notice—like recognizing a face, jumping to a conclusion, having an intuition about something.”
— Danny Hillis

“It’s much harder to imagine solutions to problems than it is to imagine problems.”
— Danny Hillis

“Maybe I’ve kept a superpower that kids have. … They’re not afraid to go in and see something new and strange and start playing with it.”
— Danny Hillis

“I try to ask the question, ‘Will this make a difference over how much time and how long will that difference matter?’ If it makes a lot of difference after I’m dead, I’d rather do that.”
— Danny Hillis

“I read enough papers that I have questions, because you’re wasting the time of a Marvin Minsky or a Richard Feynman if you don’t ask them something that makes them think. So I would say most of my learning was from the people, not the papers. But I always do homework beforehand to see where the interesting questions are.”
— Danny Hillis

“Great teachers … see where you are and they stretch you to someplace you can get to.”
— Danny Hillis

“A lot of people’s use of computers is now, they kind of know the magic incantations that cause this library to do that, but they don’t really know all the things that are going on underneath that that make it work. And so it’s becoming more like nature. Nature, we used to kind of know, ‘Well, here’s the magic incantations we use for making beer. We don’t know really why this makes good beer, this makes bad beer, or this makes champagne, but we know when we do this, it does that,’ and that’s kind of becoming our relationship with computers. So I think that what’s happening … the distinction between the natural and the artificial is becoming entangled. … It may just kind of go away because there almost is no pure nature and there almost is no pure technology that we fully understand.”
— Danny Hillis

“I have a granddaughter [who] can sit and talk to an electrician as if she knows what electricity is, just by using the right words and saying phrases that she’s heard before and so on. And she can kind of fake it pretty well, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. And that’s mostly where AI is right at this moment.”
— Danny Hillis

“It may be easier to actually make intelligence than to understand intelligence.”
— Danny Hillis

“I think humans, as we know them today, are kind of halfway between monkeys and what we’re going to become. … We’re in this transitional phase. We’ve still got a lot of monkey in us, and I’m really excited by that thing that we’re going to become.”
— Danny Hillis

“In general, I’m a short-term pessimist and a long-term optimist.”
— Danny Hillis

“Much better to be a peasant today than to be a king a couple of centuries ago in terms of your health, food that you ate, how you spend your time … your comfort, everything.”
— Danny Hillis

“I don’t believe in cause and effect.”
— Danny Hillis

“An idea has a lot more sticking power than any physical thing you could build.”
— Danny Hillis

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Jen Ross

1 year ago

Hi Tim. Danny mentioned that he’d like to see ultrasound used to produce 3D images. I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick but 3D image acquisition using ultrasound is possible today. I do some echocardiography as part of my day job and we can generate real-time 3D images/video loops of heart valves that provide more valuable information than MRI/CT in certain contexts. They also happen to be beutiful pictures (but I’m definitely biased).
It will cool to see how the 3D imaging techniques translate to other body structures, particularly moving ones.
Great episode – thanks Tim, Danny & Kevin!

Katie

1 year ago

Tim and team, I’m commenting here because this seems the best way to reach you. For those of us that would like to answer your 2 questions within today’s edition of 5 Bullet Friday, but don’t participate in social media, could you offer an alternative platform? I would suggest a blog post, and the readers could provide answers to your questions in the comments. For what it’s worth, I’m both a healthcare provider and a healthcare data analytics specialist, so I have lots to say.

Michelle Melicosta

1 year ago

Reply to Katie

Hello! I am coming here to say the same thing. I am an associate chief, medical officer and vice president for quality and patient safety at my hospital. I would very much like to engage with you especially on question number one from your Friday email that I received yesterday, but I also do not use Twitter. I am including all my contact information Here, please feel free to reach out if you would like to engage on this question. Thanks!

K D

1 year ago

Tim – in relation to your recent ask on 5 bullet Friday #2 on improving healthcare – I hope you can be the spark that changes the way things are done in the healthcare space. It’s a monumental task and I hope you can move it forward.

Max P

1 year ago

All Genius, All Buffoon: 100 Years of Richard Feynman – A (Audio) Documentary by The Cosmic Shambles Network YouTube channel << Highly reccomend this Tim and friends!
[Moderator: Link to YouTube video “All Genius, All Buffoon: 100 Years of Richard Feynman – A Documentary” redacted per embed policy.]

marlowe

1 year ago

Look up Gokhale method for your back and interview Esther Gokhale on how to cure back pain without surgery.

Aristotle

1 year ago

Thank you so much Tim for broadcasting this excellent episode.
Would anyone happen to know what books Chris Kelly is reading about the history of electricity? Sounds like an interesting perspective. Thanks.

Nico

1 year ago

If Danny is looking for interesting young inventors, he should talk to Boyan Slat who is getting rid of the world’s ocean plastics with his company The Ocean Cleanup. Very thoughtful and interesting guy, highly recommend!

Justin

1 year ago

Hi Tim,

Thanks for all you do and have done. I’m sure you’ve heard of Zakir Hussain, and sadly, his passing by now. Just wanted to share one of his projects that seems to hit two of your interests – tabla and EDM-adjacent music: enjoy!

https://open.spotify.com/album/0mrRfKiOzwnxovmVWBczdr?si=DL2290SSSGuwlV5SVUmG6Q

Samy

1 year ago

Hi Tim, I recommend to do an interview with Asmaa Waguih. She is a freelance Photojournalist. Her book just came out “Unfinished War about the Civil War in Yemen“. The bravest Women I ever met.

Mukta

1 year ago

Mukta

1 year ago

Karl

1 year ago

Re Danny’s comment about consciousness being unnecessary for some kinds of intelligence, Wired.com recently profiled a scifi / horror novel called Blindsight, where the antagonists are highly intelligent yet unconscious: https://www.wired.com/2023/10/geeks-guide-peter-watts/