Tim Ferriss

January 31, 2024

Walk & Talk with Greg McKeown — How to Find Your Purpose and Master Essentialism in 2024 (#719)

“A flight is off track 90 percent of the time. An airplane literally only gets to where it’s supposed to get to at the time it’s supposed to get there because it readjusts constantly along the way. And I feel like that myself.”
— Greg McKeown

Greg McKeown (@GregoryMcKeown) is the author of two New York Times bestsellers, Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less and Effortless: Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. Together they have sold more than two million copies in 37 languages. He is also a speaker, host of The Greg McKeown Podcast, and founder of The Essentialism Academy, with students from 96 countries. More than 175,000 people have signed up for his 1-Minute Wednesday newsletter.

He is currently doing a doctorate at the University of Cambridge, and he is easily one of my favorite thinkers on all things related to effectiveness, efficiency, and quality of life.

Greg is originally from London, England, and he and his wife Anna are parents to four children.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and Momentous high-quality supplements.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#719: Walk & Talk with Greg McKeown — How to Find Your Purpose and Master Essentialism in 2024

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Want to hear the last time Greg McKeown was on this show? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed how Gandhi would sum up Essentialism, how life experiences can unwittingly write scripts that hurt us more than they serve us, questions we can ask ourselves to cope with pet peeves, actionable gratitude, the difference between effortless action and effortless results, and much more.

#510: Greg McKeown — The Art of Effortless Results, How to Take the Lighter Path, the Joys of Simplicity, and More

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Greg McKeown:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

SHOW NOTES

[10:02] How 2023 informed 2024’s highest priorities.
[16:09] Greg’s system for effortless execution of daily tasks.
[27:42] Directional documents, shameless repentance, and shifting success.
[36:53] Poetic mysticism and matchmaking introspection.
[41:51] What compass guides you toward purpose?
[45:10] The truth as a path to your best possible future.
[50:34] Maslow’s forgotten pinnacle of self-transcendence.
[54:28] Why self-actualization is an insufficient foundation for meaningful relationships.
[1:03:09] Recommended reading for relationship cultivation.
[1:07:43] A true, bittersweet tale of progressively deepening love.
[1:13:28] The benefits of treating social media as an option rather than an obligation.
[1:16:12] AI: good servant, poor master.
[1:17:23] Blocking time for a top priority.
[1:27:55] “It’s the tools, stupid.”
[1:30:56] Embracing the constraints that stack the decks in your favor.
[1:35:41] How to sign up for Greg’s free “Less, But Better” 30-day email program.
[1:37:09] Employing the George Costanza opposite life hack.
[1:40:53] Parting thoughts.

MORE GREG MCKEOWN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“I don’t want to trust my weaknesses. I want to build a system that means my weaknesses become irrelevant.”
— Greg McKeown

“A flight is off track 90 percent of the time. An airplane literally only gets to where it’s supposed to get to at the time it’s supposed to get there because it readjusts constantly along the way. And I feel like that myself.”
— Greg McKeown

“There’s only two kinds of people in the world: there are people who are lost and there are people who know they are lost. I know how easy it is for me to get lost.”
— Greg McKeown

“There’s a big difference between 20 years of experience and the same year lived 20 times [in which] you don’t learn the lessons because you’re just going in circles and you’re just rushing, rushing and actually not getting closer to what the purpose of your life really is.”
— Greg McKeown

“AI perhaps makes a good servant, but it certainly makes a poor master. And if I’m not conscious that it is either already my master, or is trying to be, then it’s already over.”
— Greg McKeown

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.)

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Keith

1 year ago

Loved the section at the 54 minute mark, “ Why self-actualization is an insufficient foundation for meaningful relationships.”

Also, would love to know the equipment/gear used to record this awesome walk and talk episode.

Jim

1 year ago

Reply to Keith

I am also interested. I believe it was mentioned during the podcast, but I was walking and didn’t write it down.

Admin

Paul

1 year ago

Reply to Jim

Hi, Jim –

Tim uses this headset for recording walk-and-talk episodes: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50xSTS-USB-StreamSet-Streaming-Headset/dp/B0BRQNJG7X/?th=1

Best,

Team Tim Ferriss

Admin

Paul

1 year ago

Reply to Keith

Hi, Keith –

Tim uses this headset for recording walk-and-talk episodes: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50xSTS-USB-StreamSet-Streaming-Headset/dp/B0BRQNJG7X/?th=1

Best,

Team Tim Ferriss

Nate

1 year ago

Team TimTim!

I love Tim’s promoting of this Walk & Talk/Listen. Tim’s acknowledgement that one doesn’t need to simply sit and watch/listen to content is a great reminder for all. It might be worth designing unique short clips for YouTube, separate from the audio discussions, but still connected to the specific interview. (Ex: #685 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann could be just of the visual demos given) That way Tim can continue to steer away from MORE EQUIPMENT, bigger teams and costs, etc. The videos could be evergreen in the sense that they could be attached or possibly detached from a specific episode (De-shelled eggs anyone?) They could be filmed whenever: in person or virtual and Youtube would then be a true justification for demonstrating and further explaining things that are aided through visuals as opposed to being sitting, talking heads. It could extend and breathe further life into an episode between crossing the different mediums and still be packaged together in places for people to delve into all aspects of the interview, but where a sedentary situation would be expected.

Greg McKeown, I’m happy to hear your daughter Eve is doing well. Your recognition and attentiveness to her changes in behavior to what tipped you off to her illness discussed the last time you spoke with Tim is something that I think about often. I know how much I changed myself during my adolescent years, but my parents never had the vocabulary, connections or ability to reach out about this and my relationships with myself and them has been forever altered as a result. Your story about Eve is a beautiful story, even if it required quite the storm to be weathered. I’m happy to hear that she is well and healthy enough to head out into the world and serve a Mission. The first LDS members I’d ever met were in Moldova, during a stint in the Peace Corps. I am not myself LDS and I find living in SLC difficult at times due to the theocracy that exists in some form wherever a prevalent religion reigns. I like to say being from the midwest that, “The Catholics run the show where I’m from, it’s just a different set of gangsters” 😉 I would also like compliment the LDS faith as well though. LDS beliefs, members and opinions have at times helped reshape, reframe and improve my life. You a good representative of their organization and I know you are not alone.

Thank you Tim, Greg & team.
-Nate-

Adrian Juric

1 year ago

Hi Tim,

First, let me say how great it was to hear you conduct today’s interview with Greg outdoors and on the move. As a walk-and-talk psychotherapist from Vancouver (also with back issues) I love the way you’re incorporating this healthier, time-honored way of exploring the world of ideas. I hope it did your back some good and that you get out to do more of it.

Second, I wanted to say how good it was to hear you and Greg riff on the idea of finding and speaking one’s truth. As a freelance film-maker I know how incredibly hard this can be to do. When people sit down in front of the camera, most of us (myself included) feel sure we’ll be able to lay out the truth about who we really are, what we really want, and why we’re doing what we’re doing with our lives. It’s not until we’re given time to really sit with the questions in a relaxed, unhurried way that we start to doubt the stories we usually tell. We’re at a loss for words (not necessarily a bad thing). The feeling is unnerving as hell – like ‘standing on fishes’ (Rilke) – but the only way to start living a conscious life.

Lastly, and related to the above, thank you for mentioning the poetry of Mary Oliver. I look forward to going through your previous episodes to learn more about what poetry means to you and how it serves you. I’d also look forward to an episode one day that explored the therapeutic power that poetry can have in a human life.

Thanks again for a great episode today.

Adrian

Adrian Juric

1 year ago

Sent this already but received no confirmation it went, so resending just in case.
[Moderator: Comments are moderated. Please allow time for comments to be reviewed and approved before being published.]
————–

Hi Tim,

Thanks again for a great episode today.

Adrian

Dave in Tokyo

1 year ago

I think the walk-and-talk format is great… With a venerable history, of course! (Pun intended — calling university classes for example “courses” coming from the Ancient Greek philosophers’ tradition of walking a “course” as they discussed, I believe.)

Really enjoyed this discussion and it hit me at a good time. A couple of years ago I created a two-page “life vision” that I was in the practice of reviewing daily for a while but got out of the habit somehow. Need to revisit that, maybe revise it, and remember to look at it regularly, to remind me what’s really important.

Danielle R Sumita

1 year ago

Yes to the walk and talk!!! A good podcast is a great excuse to go out and take a long walk. Big fan of this format.

David Myth

1 year ago

Thanks for the article!

Jeff Lavoie

1 year ago

Tim, I was just curious if you had listened to your good friend Dr. Peter Attia’s recent podcast with Dr. Stuart McGill? He is the master of all things back related. You might enjoy and benefit from the show. Also Kelly Starrett and his wife have written a new book “Built to Move”. Worthwhile read about benefits of sitting on the floor in various positions, proper breathing etc. Also beneficial for the back. Have a great day and keep up the fantastic work. Jeff L

jlavoie85

1 year ago

Hey Tim, there is a McGill Method Master Clinician in your area. Dr. Kai Tiltman. May be worth checking out. Jeff L

Yevgeniy Zagoruyko (Eugene)

1 year ago

#48 hour challenge

Tim and Noah, immense gratitude for your impactful contributions to my life. I have a care home business but your episode on the 48-hour challenge inspired me to pursue my dream of starting a hobby (sauna business). After listening yesterday, I’ve already posted on Facebook, taking preorders for Barrel saunas in my town. Delivery and installation included. Thank you once again for everything that you do for the world.

James Maslen

1 year ago

Hey TFS team, take this with a grain of salt, but I felt as though you weren’t as emotionally available/vulnerable in diving deeper with this conversation as your previous conversations and I can’t help but think this is related to being outdoors (I assume) and walking. I think it was a great episode and as always I thoroughly enjoy your content. I just wanted to flag this in case you or your team had a similar feeling. The topics of self transcendence and loving deeply are beautiful, thanks for the episode.

Garth

1 year ago

Reply to James Maslen

Nice episode, might I suggest calling this format a plodcast?

Lauren

1 year ago

Hi Tim, I am preparing to be a living organ donor, giving my sister half of my liver (and then each half of the liver, amazingly, will regrow to full size in each of our bodies). I was wondering if you had any suggestions to expedite the healing process – of the scar, ab muscles, liver, energy levels, etc.

I will note that your reporting on the keto diet was the main reason we looked into that diet to fight my sister’s cancer, and her response to the diet + chemo was off the charts. Thank you so much for all that you do!

Best,
Lauren

Max

1 year ago

Unrelated. But someone is seemingly impersonating you on FB and trying to get people to invest in “your mining venture”.

1 year ago

Would love these walk and talk episodes to be on YouTube as audio only. YouTube is the only platform I use and I almost missed this episode! I actually listen to YouTube while I exercise, and I know many people do that too

Nic

1 year ago

I love this walk and talk format!
There’s something very cool to me about the fact that you can’t find this podcast on Youtube.
This is also a great current example of the “what if I did the opposite” question. I love seeing it in action!
Way to go Tim! Thanks for being an inspiration!

VICTORIA SEALE

1 year ago

Why are 98% of the people you interview white males? Thanks Victoria

OCornelia

1 year ago

Thanks very much for this conversation. I typically listen while I’m exercising 😊
What Greg said about his most important relationships profoundly touched me and made me uncomfortable at the same time. Being so open and vulnerable in my marriage seems impossible after so many years of “self actualization” seemingly in service of our marriage. The trope of honoring one’s self taken to the isolating extreme of “I only need to count on myself” has created this for us. I desperately want such intimacy in my closest relationships and I surely don’t want a cancer diagnosis to inspire it. I know that starting with embodied presence can get me there.
Separately, but related, Tim; I urge you to invite Dr. Lisa Miller to the podcast. Her book “The Awakened Brain” is a gripping, data-heavy testimonial to the transformative power of spirituality in one’s life. I didn’t realize that Greg was LDS (I’m a UCC preacher’s kid myself) and his spiritual life is of course at the core of his relationships. Of course it is.

Rachel

1 year ago

Hey Tim.

Grateful for this episode. It was especially timely for me because I just had an old argument that never seems to get resolved. I think it may boil down to our differing philosophy (or prioritization) of self-actualizing vs self-transcendence! To my knowledge, neither of us have consciously thought about our argument in this context.

In Maslow’s (updated) pyramid, is self-actualization placed underneath self-transcendence or is it totally replaced by self-transcendence?

And thanks for bringing up the “performative vulnerability” phenomenon. It’s strangely disingenuous. I also get how you feel about the term “processing”… As far as “processing” goes, I believe that all this new therapy-speak (outside of actual therapy) can be detrimental/antithetical to deep relationships and self-transcendence because words like “boundaries” and “processing” seem to have become weaponized… (esp. in some female cliques I’ve seen). The term authenticity irks me right now in that same vein.

As for the walk-and-talk format, I enjoyed it. Love your experimentation with paring back and blogging again.

I am astonished that people watch podcasts. Why???
Generally, I have no idea what your guests even look like. My experience as a listener is akin to reading a book in that my vision of the characters grows straight from the imagination. Sometimes I’ll be shocked at how different guests look in real life (if I look them up). And I think that’s a good thing! Some may want to try listening from a ‘blank slate’ of mind rather than making judgements based on immutable characteristics. It’s one way to challenge assumptions.

Sam

1 year ago

I found the bit about Directional Documents interesting. Over the years, I have built/been running on my own sort of directional documents almost by circumstance it seems. They have been a super helpful way to organize the complexities of life and stay clear headed in all areas. Lately, I have heard lots of similar talk, and people wanting to have more agency in their own lives. My own documents have been quite impactful in my life. I have been trying to think about the best way/outlet to share this with the world. Feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks for another great episode!

-Sam

Dan Meehan

1 year ago

What a wonderful episode. Tim, thank you for your generous comments and praise. I have heard Greg on a number of other podcasts and I am truly happy at his success and how well he represents my faith- simply and deeply.