Tim Ferriss

March 14, 2023

Dr. Peter Attia — The Science and Art of Longevity, Optimizing Protein, Alcohol Rules, Lessons from Glucose Monitoring with CGMs, Boosting Your VO2 Max, Preventing Alzheimer’s Disease, Early Cancer Detection, How to Use DEXA Scans, Nature’s Longevity Drug, and More (#661)

“To understand what it means to live longer, you have to understand what ends life.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

Peter Attia, MD (@PeterAttiaMD), is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan. He is the host of The Drive, one of the most popular podcasts covering the topics of health and medicine.

Dr. Attia received his medical degree from the Stanford University School of Medicine and trained for five years at the Johns Hopkins Hospital in general surgery, where he was the recipient of several prestigious awards, including Resident of the Year. He spent two years at the National Institutes of Health as a surgical oncology fellow at the National Cancer Institute, where his research focused on immune-based therapies for melanoma.

His new book is Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity (3/28).

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and Shopify global commerce platform providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#661: Dr. Peter Attia — The Science and Art of Longevity, Optimizing Protein, Alcohol Rules, Lessons from Glucose Monitoring with CGMs, Boosting Your VO2 Max, Preventing Alzheimer's Disease, Early Cancer Detection, How to Use DEXA Scans, Nature’s Longevity Drug, and More

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the best overall mattress of 2025 by Forbes and Wired magazines and best in category by Good Housekeeping, GQ, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk-free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders at HelixSleep.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront is a financial services platform that offers services to help you save and invest your money. Right now, you can earn a 3.50% base APY—that’s the Annual Percentage Yield—with the Wealthfront Cash Account from its network of program banks. That’s nearly nine times more interest than an average savings account at a bank, according to FDIC.gov as of 09/26/2025 (Wealthfront’s 3.50% APY vs. 0.40% average savings rate). Right now, for a limited time, Wealthfront is offering new clients an additional 0.65% boost over the base rate for three months, meaning you can get 4.15% APY, limited to $150,000 in deposits. Terms & Conditions apply. Visit Wealthfront.com/Tim to get started.

The Cash Account, which is not a deposit account, is offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA/SIPC. Wealthfront Brokerage is not a bank. The 3.50% Base APY on cash deposits is as of November 7, 2025, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. If you are eligible for the overall boosted rate of 4.15% offered in connection with this promo, your boosted rate is also subject to change if the base rate decreases during the three-month promotional period. Tim Ferriss, who is not a client, receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage LLC. This ad may not reflect the experience of other Cash Account clients, and similar outcomes are not guaranteed. See full disclosures here.

This episode is brought to you by Shopify! Shopify is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great-looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. Go to shopify.com/Tim to sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period. It’s a great deal for a great service, so I encourage you to check it out. Take your business to the next level today by visiting shopify.com/Tim.

Want to hear Peter’s last time on the show? Listen to this conversation in which we discuss liquid biopsies, the four pillars of exercise someone seeking to improve their metabolic health should understand, methods for remedying modern posture problems, raising kids to be habitually active adults, the three levers of Peter’s nutritional framework, increasing scientific literacy, current pharmacological candidates for extending lifespan and healthspan, everything you ever wanted to know about zone two training, and much more.

#517: Dr. Peter Attia on Longevity Drugs, Alzheimer’s Disease, and the 3 Most Important Levers to Pull

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Dr. Peter Attia:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

SHOW NOTES

[07:00] How and why Peter’s muscle mass has increased significantly.
[18:48] Why the long wait for Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity?
[23:19] Objective, strategy, and tactics.
[28:50] From Medicine 1.0 to Medicine 3.0.
[39:04] Randomized control trial results: guidelines, not gospel.
[43:21] Revisiting why and how one should increase their medical literacy.
[52:44] Avoiding scientific method misconceptions.
[55:43] Austin Bradford Hill.
[56:22] Observational study versus randomized control trial.
[1:00:09] Are sleep trackers downgrading the quality of our sleep?
[1:02:53] Under what conditions does Peter feel alcohol might be worth its downsides?
[1:06:47] Continuous glucose monitors (CGMs).
[1:18:24] Underutilized metrics and tools for expanding health and lifespan.
[1:25:01] Strength.
[1:33:11] Rucking around and finding out about VO2 max.
[1:38:32] Finding the zone two sweet spot.
[1:41:10] How skinning and rucking have upped my endurance.
[1:42:24] Rucking vs. weighted vests.
[1:46:39] Are neurodegenerative diseases preventable?
[1:51:47] Helping your doctor understand and embrace Medicine 3.0.
[1:53:47] How much is an ounce of prevention worth to you?
[1:58:23] Early cancer screening.
[2:06:33] Outlive chapters.
[2:08:46] The chapter on emotional health that almost didn’t make the book.
[2:10:16] Peter’s 47 affirmations.
[2:14:18] Parting thoughts.

MORE PETER ATTIA QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Despite what a lot of the epidemiology will tell people, alcohol is not good for you in any dose. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t drink it at all, but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking it’s actually healthy at some low dose. It’s not.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“My response to alcohol is, if I drink something that doesn’t taste incredible, I pour it out. I’m never going to tolerate a bad glass of wine, ever. It’s just not worth it.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“Seven drinks in one day is very different than one drink a day for seven days. It’s the frequency and dose that defines the poison.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“Not one to just clear the bar, I want to be considerably above the bar.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“To understand what it means to live longer, you have to understand what ends life.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“When I went to medical school, I didn’t learn a single thing about nutrition or exercise or sleep or stress management or emotional health. I learned a lot about pharmacology. And it’s tempting at this point to say, ‘Well, pharmacology is either good or bad.’ No, it’s both, right? Pharmacology is good and it’s really valuable, but over-indexing it is bad.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“Sometimes more data is not always the answer.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“Any measurement in isolation can be ridiculous and can be gamed. We shouldn’t ignore blood glucose any more than we should ignore body weight or body fat or body composition. We just have to understand that it’s one of many tools that we can look at.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

“To get into that top 2.5 percent of the population where you really start to see an enormous gap between you and everybody else in terms of lifespan, yeah, maybe only a quarter of the population has the potential to get there. But the point is everybody has the potential to be more fit than they are, outside of people who are already doing everything they can. So just going from being in the bottom 25 percent of the population to the 25th to 50th percentile of the population cuts your risk of all-cause mortality in half at any point in time. There’s nothing that compares to that.”
— Dr. Peter Attia

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.)

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Jeffrey Pillow

2 years ago

Quitting alcohol completely was easily one of the best health decisions I’ve ever made. No more gentle numbing of the soul. Instead I had to face everything head on. I’m a better person for it (better dad, better spouse, better friend).

Jay Sigman

2 years ago

The work of Both of you + A. Hubberman + K. Starrett + R. Holiday… have recently been my formula to a stronger 💪 body, more immune to illness, better dad-ing and what I call healthier life even though others call me may call crazy sometimes I just smile 😁 🤙 can’t thank you enough!

Sum Chong

2 years ago

Tim, thank you for introducing all these amazing people to your audience. You add so much value to this world. It‘s amazing the work that you do. Please don‘t be so harsh on yourself. Somewhere out there someone admires you and thinks you deserve the best.

Mischelle

2 years ago

Oh man! My two favorite podcasters in one show! Thank-you. Just curious. Is there a transcript available? I listen while driving and would love to be able to gather some notes from the show for future reference.

Alex

2 years ago

Hi Tim,

I really enjoyed your interview with Attia and Huberman.

What I want to comment on is that the importance of early morning bright light or the importance of strength training or the importance of prevention is not as new as your guests seem to present.

These things IMHO have been discussed in the wider area of the paleo community for over 10 years now.

Also with all the respect I have for you, I think that advocating that you need scientific literacy to make illness prevention your goal is counterproductive. You don’t need to read publications and very few laymen people will.

You need to try to live and eat and move as your grand grand parents did.

Take care

Nick

2 years ago

So great to hear about you discovering ski touring, Tim. It truly is a magical sport. The Yin of the climb and the Yang of the down. It’s been a passion of mine for over 30 years and few other activities really compare in terms of connecting with the outdoors, fitness, adventure, and camaraderie. It can also be as casual or extreme as you make it. Interested to hear more as you continue in your skimo journey. See you in the skin track.

Mitzi Fox

2 years ago

Bingo, medical literacy is so important. CDC seems to have useful guidance – https://www.cdc.gov/healthliteracy/basics.html I’ll be using Outlive as a course for myself, maybe adding other readers along for the ride. The TOC is overwhelming – this might be a year-long endeavor. I’ve learned a LOT after a decade with my parents’ age & dementias – my father died at 89 w/ cancer-linked dementia; mom died at 93 in late Sept of Lewy Body (for 7 years, sigh). Just gave 2 talks at the library “Getting Real About Getting Old” since so many friends haven’t thought of it at all. I’m almost 66 yikes! I’ve been a listener forever; read 4HrWW in 2016. You continue to be awesome…Thank you so much

Chris Bellamy

2 years ago

Came for the CGM and VO2 Max content. Stayed for the show-notes link to purchase 4 lbs. of Raisinets. fkin funny

Chuck Pezeshki

2 years ago

Great show — Peter always helps me understand my own health goals, and as I age, I appreciate this!

FWIW — I’m a complex systems/rocket scientist, and write extensively on an area both of you discuss — not just related to medicine, but knowledge in general. Specifically, how do humans create knowledge? And how do we understand knowledge in general? Turns out the larger pattern is transcultural, and lets you know, as a speaker, when you’re getting through — or not.

And the secret, as things get more complex? Empathy. Website in the ID.

Eric N. Opp

2 years ago

Fascinating conversation!! I loved it!! I pre-ordered the book as well!!

But…

Let’s face it. You probability of dying is 100%. It feels like today’s medicine and today’s pharmacology is nothing but a game of “you did not die of MY disease.”

The phrase that Dr. Attia used: “There is no reason for anyone to die of cardiovascular disease in 2023” is total BS. As a matter of fact, I would rather die of a massive heart attack and be gone in an instant that to suffer a years-long, financially-draining battle with some cancer. My father battled high blood pressure and heart disease out of fear of “family history” only to die of liver cancer…

Whatever will kill me will kill me at some point. There is only one solution to death and that is never to be born. Otherwise, you better just figure out how to enjoy the time in between.

Maureen

2 years ago

Would love to hear from a female such as Mary Claire Haver, MD. This episode was fantastic (I bought the book for my 45 yo husband and 67 yo father) as were other similar episodes…for men’s bodies. Women’s bodies and hormones evolve differently so the application of some of these formulas to success will be quite different!

JiaoHarmsen

2 years ago

With regard to medical literacy, I enjoy the information on nutrition from Dr. Michael Greger a lot. While he explains the research in simple terms, he also shows the academic papers. I’d be interested to have him on the podcast!

Tyler

2 years ago

Reply to JiaoHarmsen

I would also be interested in this interview.

Martin

2 years ago

I really loved this episode. As a German listener, I would like to know when the book will be released in German.

LeAnn

2 years ago

Is there a specific continuous glucose monitor you could recommend?

Eeva Halla

3 months ago

Hey Peter and Tim,

I would love to hear a podcast on enamel hypoplasia in kids. There is one with Dr. Mark Burhenne, but I think this topic is huge and needs way more attention than it’s currently getting. I will let you check out the numbers, but next to autism, this is the epidemic of our time! I hate how little is known about it. My both kids have it, the first born quite severe and she has 6 crowns in her milk teeth, she was a planned pregnancy so I was on folate acid pre conception and not sure what other vitamins, I was pretty healthy pre pregnancy and during. She was born 11 days overdue, so not prematurely. We are both lean and have no other health concerns. I suppose I could suspect a vit K2 deficiency? A quick look on pubmed did not get me much wiser.. Yes I had way more stress in my first than with the second pregnancy and was healthier in general which might explain the better teeth with my son, still some of it present, but to a much lesser extent. I am very happy this is all treatable with the amazing health and dental care we have available here in Belgium, but as mentioned it is a MAJOR epidemic, and I would love to have experts like you to explore this deeper!
Many thanks!
Eeva