Coffee shops vs. classrooms – who wins? (Photo: eye2eye)
This is one of several articles planned as supplements to the original “How to Learn (But Not Master) Any Language in 1 Hour.” This piece focuses on acquisition of new material; for reactivating “forgotten” languages and vocab, I recommend also reading “How to Resurrect Your High School Spanish… or Any Language.”
Let us begin…
From the academic environments of Princeton University (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Italian) and the Middlebury Language Schools (Japanese), to the disappointing results observed as a curriculum designer at Berlitz International (Japanese, English), I have sought for more than 10 years to answer a simple question: why do most language classes simply not work?
After testing the waters with more than 20 languages and achieving conversational and written fluency in 6, I have identified several cardinal sins that, when fixed, can easily cut the time to fluency by 50-80%…
1. Teachers are viewed as saviors when materials are actually the determining factor.
Teachers are merely conduits for the material and sequencing.
By analogy, it is better to have a decent cook with excellent easy-to-follow recipe than a great cook with terrible recipe. It is the material that will restrict or elevate the teacher, and a good teacher forced to follow bad material will hinder, not hasten, learning progress. I don’t sit in on classes or otherwise consider a school until I’ve reviewed both hand-out materials and text books.
Judge materials before you judge teachers, and no matter what, do not begin with classes or texts that solely use the target language (e.g., Spanish textbooks in Spanish). This approach reflects a school’s laziness and willingness to hire monolingual teachers, not the result of their search for the ideal method.
2. Classes move as slowly as the slowest student.
Seek a school with daily homework assignments that eliminate—effectively fire—students from the class who don’t perform.
The school should have a strict curriculum that doesn’t bend for a minority of the class who can’t cope. Downgrading students is only possible in larger schools with at least five proficiency levels for separate classes—beginner, intermediate, and advanced is woefully inadequate. Students can only be moved if the jumps between classes are relatively small and there are a sufficient number of students at each level for the school to justify paying separate teachers.
At the Hartnackschule in Berlin, Germany, where I studied for 10 weeks after evaluating a dozen schools, there are at least 20 different skill levels.
3. Conversation can be learned but not taught.
Somewhat like riding a bike, though unfortunately not as permanent, language fluency is more dependent on practicing the right things than learning the right things. The rules (grammar) can be learned through materials and classes, but the necessary tools (vocabulary and idiomatic usage) will come from independent study and practice in a native environment.
I achieved fluency in German in 10 weeks using a combination of grammatical practice at the Hartnackschule (four hours daily for the first month, two hours daily for the second) and daily two-person language exchanges with students of English.
Grammar can be learned with writing exercises in a class of 20, whereas “conversation” cannot be learned in anything but a realistic one-on-one environment where your brain is forced to adapt to normal speed and adopt coping mechanisms such as delaying tactics (“in other words,” “let me think for a second,” etc.).
Separate grammar from conversation practice. I recommend choosing one school for grammar and several native books or comics to identify sticking points, which are then discussed in one-one-one language exchanges, where your partner provides examples of usage and does not explain rules.
Getting into trouble in Greek and Chinese in Athens with the help of Stefanos Kofopoulos, ouzo, and wine.
4. Teachers are often prescriptive instead of descriptive.
Many teachers take it upon themselves to be arbiters of taste and linguistic conservationists, refusing to explain slang and insisting on correct but essentially unused grammatical constructions (e.g., “with whom were you speaking?” versus “who were you speaking to?”).
Progress will be faster when you find a teacher who describes rather than prescribes usage. They should be able and willing to explain, for example, how Konjunktiv II is generally used in place of Konjunktiv I in German, even though it is technically incorrect. They should also be able to save you time by explaining what to practice based on actual frequency of use, not inclusion in a grammar text. For example, the simple past is almost always used in place of the perfect tense in Argentina, but some teachers still spend equal time on both.
To avoid those who act as defenders of language purity, it is often easier to target 20-30-year old teachers and those who are good at teaching inductively (providing examples to explain principles). Ask them to explain a few common colloquial grammatical constructions before signing up.
In conclusion—the learner is the problem (what?)
The above sins certainly inhibit the speed of learning, but the principal problem is the learner his or herself, who—more often than not—uses classes as a substitute for, and not supplement to, real ego-crushing interaction.
Classes are easily used to infinitely postpone making the thousands of mistakes necessary to achieve fluency. In boxing, they say “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” Well, in language learning, we could just as easily say that “everyone has the perfect conversation in mind until they speak to a real native.”
Don’t waste time on more than learning more than a handful of conjugations for primarily first-person singular (I) and second-person singular (you) in the past, present, and future tenses, along with common phrases that illustrate them. Throw in a few auxilaries (to want to V, to need to V, to like to V, etc.) and jump on a plane before learning any more of what you’ll just need to relearn anyway. Even after you land, you do not need more than two months of classes in-country, and remember that, like training wheels, the goal is get off of them as quickly as possible.
Don’t go to classes because you have no social network outside of class, or because you want the illusion of progress with a coddling teacher who understands your Tarzan attempts at her language. If you are taking classes because they are enjoyable, fine, but understand that you are better off spending time elsewhere.
Make it your goal to screw up as often as possible in uncontrolled environments. Explicitly ask friends to correct you and reward them with thanks and praise when they catch you spouting nonsense, particularly the small understandable mistakes. I was able to pass the Certificado de Espanol Avanzado, the most diffucult Spanish certification test in South America, in eight weeks, which is said to require near-native fluency and years of immersion. How? By following the above fixes and making more mistakes in eight weeks than most make in eight years.
“An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field,” or so said Physicist Niels Bohr. Luckily, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to use his advice. Choose schools carefully and then, once they’ve served their purpose, abandon them.
The real world is where mistakes are made, weaknesses are found, and fluency is achieved.
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Some random videos:
A promo for bookstores in Spain. It’s not easy to suppress my Argentine accent.
For German Amazon.com – some of you have seen this before.
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Odds and Ends: Update on Madrid party location this Thursday!
For all you readers and friends in Europe, come have a glass or bottle with me! The space will be on a first come first served basis, so register early. So far, there are 132 people coming — it’s going to rock.
Play hard with us 6-9pm on Thurs., Sept. 25th in Madrid. Location:
RESTAURANTE LATERAL
Centro Comercial Arturo Soria Plaza
Calle Arturo Soria 126
28043 Madrid, Spain
Tel. 91 300 36 01
Espero que nos veamos pronto!
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[…] stumbled upon Tim Ferriss’s blog today and came across one of his language learning articles, Why Language Classes Don’t Work : How to Cut Classes and Double Your Learning Rate. Tim makes some very good points about why language learners are unable to learn a language by […]
Dear Tim,
All I can say is that I learn a lot from your blogs (rather than your famous book :))
Thank you
Great article, however I couldn’t disagree more forcefully with this point: “no matter what, do not begin with classes or texts that solely use the target language (e.g., Spanish textbooks in Spanish).”
As someone who’s achieved fluency in 5 languages, I can say with certainty that the best language classes are those where only the target language is spoken. I highly recommend Berlitz courses for this reason above all others.
Hi Tim, I really enjoyed your article ‘The Art of Wrapping Your Mouth—
Literally—Around a New Language’. I want to ask a related question. Do you think it is possible to achieve a native-like accent in your L2 even if you began learning it as an adult? Reading the compliments on your Argentine spanish from native speakers suggests that it is. Is it a case of vocal practice and living in a native environment?
Keep being an inspiration!
[…] I’ve found useful include Tim Ferris’s How to Learn Any Language in Three Months, Why Language Classes Don’t Work: How to Cut Classes and Double Your Learning Rate (Plus: Madrid Up…, How to Resurrect Your High School Spanish… or Any Language and Wikibook’s How to Learn a […]
Here is an open question to any language learners reading this blog.
I have always felt that all those mistakes are necessary to achieve fluency and while the threat of making mistakes stil inhibits me from speaking sometimes I don't feel I've really gained that much from the mistakes I've made. The corrections usually go in one ear and out the other.
Is it a matter of making the same mistakes again and again until they sink in, or would a more pro-active approach be the wiser option, for example – fastening a notepad and pen around my neck to write down those corrections as they arise?
Any ideas out there?
Oddly this post has been just as helpful as a years worth of TESOL courses. but i guess the TESOL courses arent too terrible since I get credits out of them and they are generally enjoyable classes. I used the basic sentence structure a couple times now and its been more effective for tutoring Japanese students english than any of the instruction material the university has given me, then again Im of the general impression that my schools teaching system has huge flaws in it to the point where I can be completely fluent conversationally and have JLPT2 qualifications but not be able to pass an intermediate class.
Also I had a similar experience with Japanese the first time I tried to learn it, IE embarrassing myself in front of an entire school.
I am fluent in Brazilian Portuguese (lived in Rio de Janeiro for 5 years – my wife is Brazilian) and now live in Mexico City. More than my fear of the swine flu, I am terrified that my Brazilian Portuguese is going to get stomped on by Spanish because they’re so similar. I am afraid that I will lose my pristine Brazilian Portuguese.
This fear is keeping me from really learning Spanish. So far I’ve been using Portuguese with a Spanish flavor and getting by ok. But my job partially depends on my ability to communicate well in Spanish, and so I have to get serious here and learn it.
Any advice on how to keep two very similar languages from interfering with each other, or minimizing and/or easily reversing this effect when it happens?
Abraços
Kevin
You have some of the most sensible ideas on language learning I’ve encountered. I speak German, Spanish, and Russian, in that order of fluency, plus odds and ends of others. I have good spatial visualization and the Latin-esque approach of tables of case endings and conjugations works for me (though I fully realize it doesn’t work for others). I have absolutely no patience with the “learn 1000 cute phrases” approach of Berlitz. I want structure and organization.
I accidentally cut myself off (fortunately after a complete sentence). After lunch with some Spanish speakers yesterday, my wife, who is near native fluency, credited me with helping her get there because I just speak and make mistakes. It got her over the “perfection is the enemy of good enough” hurdle. So I couldn’t agree more with the need to just jump in and make mistakes. If we applied Pareto’s 80/20 rule everywhere it could be usefully applied we could either do 5 times as much or work 1/5 as long, whichever you want (I draw the line at landing my plane safely 80% of the time!).
I’m working on Arabic (which I learned a little of in the military) and am encountering problems I haven’t found in European languages. The limited variety of initial sounds (lots of vowels and m’s) makes the words blur in my mind. I would seriously like to find a text that builds vocabulary around the triliteral root system but have not located one. Even well organized texts like the Hippocrene and Teach Yourself books (Teach Yourself used to be utterly abysmal back when they were the little blue hardbound books but they totally revamped and are now quite good) treat grammar in such a fragmented way it’s frustrating.
[…] contend that real-world practice is more important than classroom time when learning a language. I agree that real-world interactions in your desired language are key to […]
Thanks for the tip to Pimsleur, Tim. I’ve used Rosetta personally just to try it out, and found the flashcard method to be tedious and pretty ineffective. My visual associations with random objects might be better for it, but not my ability to converse or haggle in a market!
I was wondering if you have any recommendations for schools to study Arabic at?
If you’re interested in language please check out Michel Thomas’ programs. They are great! Pimsleur is good but nothing compares to Michel.
Daniel
Shiga, Japan
Your method sounds vaguely Socratic. interesting. The rub I’m finding here is the positive that anyone can rapidly acquire language proficiency. However, the situation of devoting 4+ hours daily for one month, etc, is the challenge to most anyone. It would be interesting to see how these kinds of ideas of accelerated learning can be applied to those without the luxury of time–though it’s probably antithetical to the aims of your practices. What I like about this, it allows one to move rapidly though the skut-work of basics, and jump into the more context-interesting areas of language within the context of exchanging ideas–where the real learning begins.
theres a typo! “diffucult” is in the 5th paragraph down from the “In conclusion—the learner is the problem (what?) ” headline.
Hi Tim,
Great post. I perfectly agree with you when you say that things go well after practicing rather than after learning them. I studied for about three years Spanish in college and I thought I “knew” it. But I was far from the truth. When I traveled to Spain I discovered that it was absolutely impossible for me to know Spanish, because I had only learnt it and skipped an important part – PRACTICE.
Now, I practice Spanish every day with my virtual Spanish friends on http://www.fluentfuture.com, an exchange language website for people passionate about foreign language. And, just by seeing how helpful this is, I realized that learning and practice must go hand in hand in order to come to master a foreign language and effectively use it.
As a language trainer for quite a long time, I can verify some of the ideas introduced in this post.
I speak fluent French and fluent English, with a bit of Swedish thrown in and progressing through my second year of classroom-based intensive Mandarin at a prominent American university. What you say about the need to make as many mistakes as possible — even when you know a correct way of articulating something — could not be more true. I do worse in classes, but ultimately learn better, because I try to incorporate new words and grammatical structures when speaking with my professor.
As an aside, your Chinese sounds like that of someone who lived in Wuhan when they were young and then moved to Beijing. Crystal clear, although the only accurate descriptor that comes to mind is ‘not heavy’.
Chinese midterm in twenty minutes. ??????????????, ???????…
Just one more suggestion – look for language groups on meetup.com. If you live in a reasonably large city, you are likely to find groups representing a wide array of languages, and you will usually find native speakers with whom to practice, not just other learners.
Nice videos. I liked your Spanish video, you did a good job of masking the Argentinian accent, only at “secillos” you kinda gave it away.
I agree that classes are not the way to learn a language. You should use them as a tool to get started. However as soon as you
When i went to Spain i took classes but also signed up immediately for a couple of intercambios. Another method i use is self-study.
During the self-study i see a lot of grammar and vocab on a fast pace.
The classes are good for feedback on my accent, questions about grammar, to find out expressions, …
Intercambios are excellent for practising. Ask anyone how they became good at something, the secret is practise (effeciently).
One methodology that worked really well for me was to force myself think in a foreign language. I’d carry a small dictionary with me and when I couldn’t “think” of a particular word I’d look it up in a dictionary. Also translating what others say to you in your native language into the foreign language works really well as well.
Tim,
You mentioned the Hartnachschule and that you took classes for 4 hours a day to start….but you didn’t say which classes you took there. I am looking to study German in Germany and am getting very confused by all the courses they offer. Which courses did you take through them?
[…] 6. Tim Ferriss speaks German, Spanish, Japanese, and Mandarin. In his post How to Learn any Language in 3 Months, he explains how he does it. Most important takeaways: word frequency lists and choosing highly interesting and relevant material. He also has a good post called Why Language Classes Don’t Work. […]
Wow Tim,
I am impressed. I have always had a talent for language. I learned this when living in Germany, and picked up Spanish easily. I am not fluent in either and would love to get fluent in both languages, and perhaps others. i would love your advice. You are an inspiration.
I do have levels one and two Rosetta Stone, Latin Spanish. I am not a firm believer in the way language is taught in University. I had an unpleasant experience in the last class. It was interesting because I always excelled but according to the most impressive powerful teacher I should give up. Never. I know what I am good in. Thank you for this.
I think you’re right but it’s easier to break it down than your description.
In my opinion, there are only four parts to language acquisition and they can all be done in a class or they can all be done by yourself. They are the following:
1. Vocabulary acquisition of the minimum corpus to understand and communicate using the 80/20 rule
Though this can be done in a classroom, probably this is one that’s most amenable to just sitting down and studying hard by yourself. Repetition is key here. If you learn a word in your class and never repeat it, you will forget it a week later and it will be lost.
2. Grammar acquisition using the same principle – 80/20 rule
Personally I think grammar is the least important. Children are understood when they say “me eat” and pointing. Adults can be too and there’s no reason you can’t speak in a pidgin to begin with. That said, probably grammar is best learned in a class.
3. Listening practise
This can be learned in a class or by watching TV or listening to the radio or chinesepod or some equivalent.
4. Speaking practise
This can not easily be learned on your own. You need exposure to a live speaker who has some degree of fluency so as to be able to check you can be understood and receive corrections.
Personally speaking, however, I avoid classrooms altogether. I find them to be too slow. I learned Spanish fluently from a combination of the TV, memorization of about 5000 basic vocabulary items, some study of grammar and a once weekly practise with a native Spanish speaker at the library.
I’m fluent with a generic Latin American accent now.
I plan to learn French using the same method.
Tim, I enjoyed your article on language learning. I have tackled four languages myself but would like to know if there is a fast track to learning vocabulary other than standard flash cards. Much of what you have said applies to conversation but, for instance, studying for conversational german is much different than reading philosophical/theological german. Do you have a prescription for learning a language with the intention to read academically? Your help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Bryan
@Bryan: Not Tim but I can share some tips on your question. Have you checked out smart.fm and Anki?
Great article. I’d like to see you learning Polish – it’s one of the most difficult language.
Wow! Your spanish is perfect! Y no se nota acento argentino, se nota un acento casi espanol.
Greetings from Puerto Rico!
Gracias, che! 🙂
Un abrazo fuerte,
Tim
Se dice eso de mi jajajajaj debe de ser del sur de España porque no ceceo
Tim, for learning Mandarin in China or Taiwan, what do you consider the best school to go to? I’ve considered the ICLP program (formerly known as the Standford Center), the Taipei Language Institute, BCLU and a few others. I’m willing to travel to Asia for 9 months and do some hardcore learning including full immersion. Do you have any suggestions?
You could just go there. Make some friends for language exchanges, take notes or sign up for courses over there.
Hey Tim ! Great stuff, as usual. Would you by any chance have any tips or tricks on how to better learn (and speak) a language for a person who stutters ?
I’ve been stuttering for my whole life, and even though it did not really prevent me from learning English (I am French), it didn’t really help me speak properly either !
Now the frustration is high, because I know that my linguistic skills are good, I do fine with writing but i am still stuck with the speaking because of that freaking stuttering… :-/
Just an idea and I’m not a specialist here, but have you tried different rhythms and melodies for saying certain things? I once heard that that might help stutterers..
Great post! Can anybody recommend a good language school in the US? Anything like mentioned one in Germany or something?
Great tips indeed! Learning languages particularly require that the student needs to be proactive in studying and not be reliant on materials to be able to master a foreign language. Teachers may or may not even fully comprehend the material that they are teaching either so that can make it hard for some students to be able to master that.
WOW! Your spanish is so good! I am amazed! I am trying to learn Mandarin. I know spanish already. Do you recommend any online course/software? I need to start deconstructing Mandarin…
Thanks.
Nevermind my previous post. I read in the comments that you recommend “Michel Thomas and Pimlsleur (though I find the latter slow at times) get my vote every time”….is this still true?
Un abrazo gordito para ti también…
I have taught English in Taiwan, Korea and China. And I have to say that the slower learners can slow the rest of the class down. But it depends. I teach kids and if the classes are fun and educational then everybody is getting involved and learning.
And yeah sometimes even with that some may learn slower, but then it’s a good idea to focus on the majority and not let a minority interrupt or slow down the class.
Ian I was just wondering, what do you think of the idea of getting your best students to help the slowest? Have you tried it, had any experience with this? I have many great memories of playing games in language classes such as Taboo, and I figure that could be great encouragement for sharing new knowledge among students.
As an English teacher and language learner, I couldn’t agree more. Language is about communicating, and that takes guts. Sure, classes can help. But getting out there and using it is the way to learn it. Thanks for sharing this!
Wow, Tim, I’m impressed. I came to this blog article expecting you to thrash the “traditional methods” of language learning and advocate some kind of ninja secret, but instead you surprise readers with intelligent observation and a good rundown of facts which represent nothing but truth. I very much agree on your points regarding the way languages are taught – it’s part of the reason why I consciously decide to advocate 1 to 1 classes over teaching groups. I would rather provide the best teaching that I can than have a higher margin on teaching several people who might hold each other back. Having said that, I’m beginning to see the downside and will start hosting get-togethers for various students so that I can get them talking TO EACH OTHER.
I love your description of avoiding the “ego-crushing moment of having to speak in a foreign language”. It’s the absolute key thing in so much learning to give a lot of positive encouragement but avoid giving your students the idea that they can be perfect right away. Everyone makes mistakes, you need the confidence to persevere anyway.
Thus far I couldn’t agree more with you. The Spanish class I am in has much too many students, and hardly any time. . . Not to mention the fact that I want to learn Spain’s version(Castellano), which unfortunately is not going to happen.
I’m willing to put a lot of time into this, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Why do you find that the size of your class is stopping you from progressing? Is it that you feel like it’s slowing you down? It could be okay to repeat exercises a few more times than necessary because that really anchors them in your memory. On the other hand, if you felt bored and frustrated then of course that would ultimately stop you progressing at all.
I studied both Castellano and South American Spanish and never found them that different from each other, except in the pronunciation of the c – but that’s quickly corrected so don’t worry. You won’t go 20 miles the wrong way, you’ll be able to course correct.
Because the class is so short and has too many students…
Yes they aren’t much different, but I’d prefer to learn in Spain’s version. I’m planning on living in Spain soon, and it would be nice to have a solid understanding…
When in Spain I’m planning on taking classes to improve my Spanish, but i’d prefer to have an already good knowledge of the language at this point, and if I learn the Latin version I’d have to start taking the beginner classes to get the pronunciation differences down. + Money is always a factor.
Please tell me know what do you think about Effortless English? Thank you very much!! I desperately needed to learn English in three months, but do not know which method to study the effectiveness. I research some method and hear that Effortless English is very good, but It also say that It will teach me to think in English, and speak English automatically, what do you think about it?
Hey Tim,
Love your work. I was just wondering what were the most important words you used to learn spanish? Like the key 100 from another language article and if I should buy the 4HWW or the 4HCHEF if I am primarily interested in learning a language?
Hey, Tim!
You’re incredible. Your Spanish, Chinese and German sound amazing, I mean – where is any accent???:)
Your book inspired me, a lot. After 4 years of the lifestyle that was very similar to yours (4 different countries to live in and 6 langues), I felt a little bit lost, asking myself where It could lead me, or should I chose some definitive destination. And especially – how could I continue this fun beeing financially independent and without this torture with visas every time I chose a new country (hey, It’s not the same for USA or European citizens than for Russians for example).
I still have not the answers, but your book teased me. Your approach isn’t perfect for everyone, It stays rather masculine and doesn’t cover the female need of security, comfort and smoothness (how will you pack 15 pair of basic shoes for your travel, for example?:) But the most important is that it cleans out all the stereotypes from the head, so that everyone can do his own ideal
design.
Thank you a lot for sharing all these great ideas.
It’s a pitty I couldn’t participate in this 20dates-in-one-weekend marathon that you spoke about. Could you please keep your readers updated about a new round?:)
Nina
For example, the simple past is almost always used in place of the perfect tense in Argentina, but some teachers still spend equal time on both.
–> Maybe this is the reason why spanish from Argentina sounds too bad 😉
They are useful for gaining knowledge and that´s about it To make it stick you have to go out and apply it as with many things. I probably would have not started Spanish again without the foundation I gained with the Spanish classes I took in school. However, if I had known what I had known about the importance of outside practice regardless of your level. I would have taken up my former steamstress´s offer to pratice. I might have been times better than I was now.
Tim,
I’m an army linguist but I’m having trouble maintaining my language since I left DLI. We are expected to pass a proficiency test once a year but with little time to study and few resources for my particular language I don’t know where to begin as far as maintaining my language goes. Should I focus on listening and reading comp or make an effort to get the speaking side down pat in hopes that the other two will fall into place?
You nailed it Tim, I’ve found that once you get the basics of grammar and vocab down, the only way to progress is to start talking to people. Otherwise you get stuck in that academic never-land where you know the book learning perfectly but you can’t hold a simple conversation.
Great post!
The last part of this post could almost be used word for word to describe how to learn any social skill (making friends, selling a product, speaking a language, picking up someone of the opposite sex)…prepare to make mistakes, be embarrassed and have your ego crushed, and just go out there and start doing it! Thanks for a good post.
I found your articles to be very inspirational and will sign up to receive your blog!
Being a member of the over 50 crowd and living in a Germanic country for over six years (and struggling terribly with the language), I am now inspired to begin again learning the language. I appreciate what you are doing for so many and grateful to have stumbled upon your talk on The Next Web.
Cheers to you!
Learning to speak a foreign language today should be fun, easy and interesting. Learning a new language as a foreigner and getting to become a bilingual individual has many benefits today. I am learning Spanish. I just love your post. Thanks
i agree with you classroom was not suitable for me. i wan learning german in a local institute Kualalampur. (planing to visit germany) . With 150$ i almost lean nothing except basic communication. But i did not get proper practice . Coz teacher anevery one is malaysian. Then i planing keep my practice at skype. So i hire some from http://preply.com/en/german-by-skype . it was effective. Learning one to one is more effective then class room.
Then i visited germany . best thing happened there. i meet some new friends . spend lots of time on cafe and with in 2 week my german improve so much that i can at least get admission in German university
How do I avail this german class by skype?
Interesting ideas. I’m taking japanese classes skype at http://preply.com/en/japanese-by-skype
Hello! Thank you for your article about online Skype tutoring in English. I’d like to try your service to compare it to my previous experience. I did 10 lessons by Skype with a native speaker {Moderator: link removed]. And I was pretty satisfied with the quality, but I want to try another option.
Der Typ hat recht! Ich wollte mal Russisch lernen, befand mich dann in einem Kursus an der VHS mit Rentnern. Mensch war das langsam! Ich lernte nichts. Stattdessen verbring ich jetzt Zeit mit Russen bzw. Russischsprachigen, lese Zeitungsartikel (also online), Bücher und vor allem aber die Kommentare in Foren, Youtube, usw. wo man sich normalen Sprachgebrauch, Rhetorik, Humor, Schlagfertigkeit, usw. alles einprägen kann und sofort auch ausprobieren kann. Das ist viel effektiver! Natürlich habe ich eine Grammatik sowie grundlegende Kenntnisse durch Sprachschulen, doch diese tragen nur dann zum Lernen bei, wenn ich sei als Nachschlagwerke verwende. Sprich, erst wenn ich die Motivation habe — etwa dadurch, dass ich mich über etwas und auf ne gewisse Art und Weise äußern möchte —, lernen ich dann die passende grammatikalischen Regeln, etc. Das klappt super für den Anfang. Sobald ein gewissermaßen gutes Niveau erreicht wird, mach ich das natürlich strukturierter. Fürs Erste aber ist die organische Vorgehensweise meines Erachtens die beste.
Great, thought provoking article.
I take 2 hours of Spanish class each day (1 on 1) – 5x a week (10 hours a week). We have set topics for each day (roughly) and have learning materials relating to these. However, the entire lesson is in Spanish (unless I need clarification in English). We often talk for 50-65% of the entire lesson in Spanish. I also live in Spain. What level of language attainment could I achieve in 5 months – having started with a few basic words and phrases? B2?
hi there.. I am busy doing my bachelor thesis on the theme of language stays but at the moment I am doing some background research. I would like to pick your brain or hear more on this subject if you would like to share? thanks for the post,
Simone Dimitriou
hey ,
I found your post very useful with me , i can use to train for my brother. thanks
In my opinion there is no perfect way to learn a language, but I think saying that classes won’t work is in my humble opinion incorrect. For example, I’ve traveled abroad to Argentina last year to study Spanish. Right it took me about 6 months of intensive classes but I can now say I speak the language fluently. Perhaps the best way to learn a language is by immersion. I tried this system at Vamos Spanish Academy and since they have native teachers the experience was truly great.
hey Tim, i am a foreigner in Turkey and i would like to start my sales and marketing coaching business but my biggest problem is not being fluent in Turkish Language, How i can talk to My audiences or write blogs while i am not good at this language? i will be happy to hear from you thanks
I keep going back to this post to motive myself learning Spanish. I have been attending classes for the last 7 months but I feel something is not working. The teacher is good but the traditional learning method is not getting me anywhere.
I created my own learning sheets now based on what Tim talks about on the blog and his podcasts. I am going to focus on practical material and drop all the unnecessary stuff language schools trying to teach.
As a college student who plays sports, I know that not everyone has time to do 4 or 2 hours a day if a single language that they don’t even want to learn
‘Teachers are merely conduits for the material and sequencing.’
Not sure I agree with that, good teachers motivate and inspire amongst other things.
I love the principles you’ve given in this article.
Excellent post!!! Thank you 🙂 I’m a language teacher but I have never looked at it this way. You’ve opened my eyes!
Teachers have to be prescriptive, writer! Don’t YOU follow rules when you speak or write?
Well that explains why I can speak German nearly fluid and English not even close to fluid 😀 I learned English in school and the teacher was obsessed with grammatical correctness! His lessons were all about grammar. I hated it. We never had real conversations and when we had our students exchange I merely understood a word my host family spoke to. To them I must’ve looked like a retard 😀
And this year I was attempting the Speakeasy Sprachzeug language school in Berlin (for all interested: this language school) and they told us about German grammar, but also told us how to have a conversation. Together with my roommates, whom were all German natives, I practiced every single day.
And when I go to a pub in Berlin today, people just won’t believe me when I tell them that I’m not born in Germany 🙂 So without knowing it, I managed to find a school which fulfilled all your requirements and got even further, as they had this awesome conversation class, where it was all about having a conversation in German 🙂
Well next language on my Journey will be French and this time I will actively search for a school like you describe in your article. Thank you for this neat information 🙂 Didn’t realized until now how much luck I had 😀
Best regards
Lara
hehe..you got quit a good accent too (Greek here)
*quite! 😉
Hi Tim,
I have just read your post and I really liked it. I am a language teacher (Dutch) myself and some of my students think that just attending my classes will do the trick. I tell them I can explain the language and help out but they have to do the work. As long as they don’t know the most common verbs and nouns by heart and know how to build new phrases themselves they will not learn the language well enough.
Most of the time they are too afraid to make mistakes and they don’t try the language outside of the classroom. I tell them that they have to start using the language as much as possible and making mistakes is just part of the learning process.
I use the quizlet app to make personalized vocabulary lists with words that they can use in their daily life because what you learn should be as practical as possible!
Good luck learning any new language.
Regards,
Bob Zevering
Learn the Language
I teach EFL STEAM classes. Who is the brilliant ding bat that thinks it’s a good idea to throw unorganized topics with overly complex language at beginning young EFL students? It’s terrible. It is always a big failure. I feel bad for those students, especially when it’s in a group setting. They need 1 on 1 care, with an emphasis of FUNTIONAL language, not weird phrases they cant remember , cant say, and cant understand. I love the language schools that criticize teachers who don’t throw descriptions they don’t understand at them to convey the weird phrases (as if the pictures aren’t kinda self explanatory). Whew.
By the way, my 1 on 1 students (and group classes with more “leniency on talking”) can order food at restaurants, follow class instructions (draw, listen, repeat, read, and answer what do you see) by the SIXTH lesson. So, STEAM should die in the EFL realm.
10 years after the first time I read 4 Hour Workweek, I’m going back and enjoying a lot of your old blog posts Tim. Currently learning Macedonian as my fifth language. The best advice I’ve ever received is to practice telling simple stories from my own daily life. I’ll record myself talking, then go back and correct myself or look up words/phrases I didn’t know, which then go on flashcards. This way I build up sets of vocabulary that are based on my actual life and what I would tend to talk about naturally.
Good advice, but I do have one issue. Advice to ‘target 20-30-year old teachers’ is an ageist statement and assumes (quite incorrectly, I might add) that older teachers are set in their ways and cling to old, outdated teaching pedagogy. Experienced teachers often feel more comfortable deviating from the curriculum. I teach English and I often tell my students “Your grandma would say that. We don’t talk like that. Say this …. instead. It’s not proper grammar/the proper word, but it is how we talk.” Your instructor should also be able to tell you when and where to use the expression or grammar point (for example, at the office, with your friends, etc…).