Pablos Holman — One of the Scariest Hackers I’ve Ever Met (#827)

Pablos Holman (@pablos) is a hacker and inventor and the bestselling author of Deep Future: Creating Technology that Matters, the indispensable guide to deep tech. Previously, Pablos worked on spaceships at Blue Origin and helped build The Intellectual Ventures Lab to invent a wide variety of breakthroughs, including a brain surgery tool, a machine to suppress hurricanes, 3D food printers, and a laser that can shoot down mosquitos, part of an impact invention effort to eradicate malaria with Bill Gates.

Pablos hosts the Deep Future Podcast, and his TED talks have been viewed more than 30 million times. He is also managing partner at Deep Future, investing in technologies to solve the world’s biggest problems. 

Please enjoy!

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SHOW NOTES & LINKS

• Connect with Pablos Holman:

Deepfuture.Tech | Twitter | LinkedIn

Transcripts

• This episode.
• All episodes.

Media

• Deep Future: Creating Technology That Matters by Pablos Holman
• The Deep Future Podcast
• Pablos Propaganda WhatsApp Group
• ETech: Hacker Shows How Your TV, Front Door, and iPhone are Vulnerable | WIRED
• Pablos Holman: Nuclear Reactors Can Solve Inequality | TED Talk
• Pablos Holman: Better Ancestors | TED Talk
• Pablos Holman: How to Become Relevant When a Robot Takes Your Job | TED Talk
• Pablos Holman: Inventing for the World’s Largest Problems | TED Talk
• The Art of Deception by Kevin Mitnick
• Back to the Future starring Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd
• Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan Wang
• Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
• DodgeBall: A True Underdog Story starring Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn
• Elysium starring Matt Damon and Jodie Foster
• The 4-Hour Chef: The Simple Path to Cooking Like a Pro, Learning Anything, and Living the Good Life by Timothy Ferriss
• Scent of a Woman starring Al Pacino
• Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson
• True Lies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jamie Lee Curtis
• WarGames starring Matthew Broderick
• Zero Effect starring Bill Pullman and Ben Stiller

People

• Jeff Bezos
• Jeremy Bornstein
• Tyler Cowen
• Brady Forrest
• Bill Gates
• Sherlock Holmes
• 3ric Johanson
• Samy Kamkar
• Stephen Key
• Elan Lee
• Palmer Luckey
• Major Malfunction
• Kevin Mitnick
• Rodney Mullen
• Elon Musk
• Nathan Myhrvold
• Keith Rosema
• Neal Stephenson
• Ben Stiller
• Donald Trump
• Chris Young

Companies & Concepts in Technology & Innovation

• Abu Dhabi’s AI-Native Government
• The ADVANCE Act of 2024
• AirSnort
• Anduril
• Apple II
• Autonomous Ships
• Blue Origin
• Commonwealth Fusion Systems
• Deep Fission
• Deep Isolation
• Dodgeball
• Empire State Building
• Everett Massacre (Wobblies vs. Snohomish County Sheriff)
• Hackerbot
• Holobiome
• Intellectual Ventures
• Linux
• Maersk
• Newlab
• Nuclear Fusion Power
• Nuclear Power in China
• Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)
• Nvidia
• Oakley X-Metal (Pablos’ indestructible glasses)
• ONE Campaign
• Perpetual Motion
• PSYOP
• Recycling in Europe
• Recycling in the US
• RFID (Radio Frequency Identification)
• Ladon Robotics
• Schlage Locks
• Sock Puppet Attack
• TerraPower
• Uber vs. Taxis
• Zero-Click Exploits

Conferences

• Chaos Computer Congress (CCC)
• DEF CON
• Mars (Jeff Bezos’ private conference)
• O’Reilly Emerging Technology Conference
• ShmooCon
• ToorCon

Miscellaneous Motion

• Aikido
• Bartitsu: The Gentleman’s Martial Art
• Salsa
• Tango

Timestamps

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:02:12] The first time I witnessed Pablos’ digital sleight of hand.
• [00:04:33] How did Pablos become what he considers to be a hacker?
• [00:08:04] The off-label mindset that makes a good hacker (like Samy Kamkar) great.
• [00:17:07] The magic of Rodney Mullen.
• [00:20:28] How Eric Johanson and Pablos gave life to adorable password thief Hackerbot.
• [00:23:44] Hacker self-defense and the zero-click exploit market.
• [00:27:11] International pockets of hacker density.
• [00:30:13] Conventions where modern hackers congregate.
• [00:30:48] Why, in geopolitics, technology is a game lost by the non-players.
• [00:33:05] The case to rally behind new nuclear power.
• [00:36:54] Sequencing priorities so the US can remain technologically competitive.
• [00:44:49] Evaluating risk and reward in deep tech investment.
• [00:50:40] Shoring up the shape of shipping.
• [00:56:59] How Pablos gained his name and famous frames.
• [00:58:48] Pablos is a possible-ist.
• [00:59:45] What makes Pablos an attractive hire for the world’s richest people?
• [01:02:06] From Silicon Valley to Seattle: the Blue Origin origin story.
• [01:08:55] Why Pablos prevails over his M-dash peers.
• [01:11:41] Zero Effect and WarGames: The only movies that matter?
• [01:15:58] A major security malfunction exploited by Major Malfunction.
• [01:18:30] The enigmatic Neal Stephenson.
• [01:19:38] Long-form lessons gleaned from Jeff Bezos and the Blue Origin mission.
• [01:27:15] For solving the world’s problems, communities are crucial.
• [01:31:03] Newlab PSYOPS.
• [01:34:44] AI and the ripple effects of China’s engineering-minded vs. America’s attorney-heavy leadership.
• [01:48:20] Unearthing like-minded inventors and innovators.
• [01:50:42] How Pablos learned salsa dancing via aikido vs. my own tango experience.
• [02:08:27] Why you should invest or get involved in deep tech.
• [02:14:45] Clearing up fusion confusion.
• [02:21:17] Making progress happen is a team effort.
• [02:24:19] Parting thoughts.

MORE PABLOS HOLMAN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“I think a future that’s awesome is absolutely possible. A shitty future is also possible, but the balance is up to us.”

— Pablos Holman

“I tried to do tango first for a month, but it takes advantage of none of my natural talents. You can’t do reverse engineering in tango. It’s too structured and disciplined and minute, and salsa, you can just wiggle your way through it.”

— Pablos Holman

“Most people, if you get a new gadget, like your phone, and give it to your mom, she’ll ask you, ‘What does this do?’ That’s a totally normal question. ‘iPhone, Mom. Says on the box.’ If you give a new gadget to a hacker, then the question is, ‘What can I make this do?’”

— Pablos Holman

“You can’t invent a new technology by reading the directions. That’s just never happened, ever.”

— Pablos Holman

“I had a computer in the cold, in the dark, in the basement, in Alaska, and nobody to show me anything about how it worked. So I had to learn by reverse engineering.”

— Pablos Holman

I do have a kind of extreme risk tolerance. My whole career, I’ve only worked on things that I thought were cool or interesting. I’ll optimize for that over everything else.

— Pablos Holman

“Pablos is a totally fake name because all hackers have fake names.”

— Pablos Holman

Want to hear another episode with someone who asks “What can I make this do?” Listen to my conversation with legendary hacker Samy Kamkar, in which we discussed creating the fastest-spreading computer virus of all time, accidentally taking down MySpace, getting raided by the Secret Service, hijacking drones with custom hardware, optimizing online dating through reverse engineering, opening locked cars, manipulating Google Maps traffic data, and much more.

This episode is brought to you by Cresset Family Office! Cresset offer family office services for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs. They handle the complex financial planning, uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning, bill pay and wires, and all the other parts of wealth management that would otherwise pull me away from doing what I love most: making things, mastering skills, and spending time with the people I care about.  Schedule a call today at cressetcapital.com/Tim to see how Cresset can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth.

I’m a client of Cresset. There are no material conflicts other than this paid testimonial. All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

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