Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.
In this episode, past podcast guest Cal Newport interviews me for an article he ended up writing for The New Yorker titled “Revisiting ‘The 4-Hour Workweek’: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”
Who is Cal? Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.
Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.
You can find my interview with Cal at tim.blog/calnewport, and you can find the 2007 talk at SXSW that launched everything at tim.blog/sxsw.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
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The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
If you’d like to hear the last conversation I had with Cal Newport, lend an ear to our conversation here in which we discussed lightning bolt lessons from Steve Martin, living the deep life, sharpening skills, honing funny bones, fresh thoughts on slow productivity, eschewing the temptations of social media, contemplations on moral frameworks, Cal’s 30-day digital minimalism declutter, and much more.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
- Connect with Cal Newport:
- Revisiting “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Cal Newport | The New Yorker
- The Lost Presentation That Launched The 4-Hour Workweek — “Secrets of Doing More with Less in a Digital World” from SXSW 2007 | The Tim Ferriss Show #548
- The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | Amazon
- Cal Newport — The Eternal Pursuit of Craftsmanship, the Deep Life, Slow Productivity, and a 30-Day Digital Minimalism Challenge | The Tim Ferriss Show #568
- The Deep Questions Podcast
- Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport | Amazon
- Digital Minimalism: Choosing a Focused Life in a Noisy World by Cal Newport | Amazon
- A World Without Email: Find Focus and Transform the Way You Work Forever by Cal Newport | Amazon
- Princeton University
- TrueSAN Officially Kicks Bucket | Network Computing
- Dotcom Bubble | Investopedia
- New Economy | Investopedia
- Remote Desktop Software | GoToMyPC
- List of Animal Tools | The Flintstones Archeology Wiki
- Elance | Wikipedia
- EasyGroup | Wikipedia
- 80/20 Rule (Pareto Principle) | Investopedia
- Legendary Tech Billionaire’s Iconic Luxury Yacht Is Still an Awe-Inspiring Masterpiece | autoevolution
- Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You by John Warrillow | Amazon
- Built to Sell — Making Your Company Sellable by John Warrillow | The Tim Ferriss Blog
- So You’re Being Acqui-hired… | Cooley GO
- Whatever Happened to Netscape? | Engadget
- Liar’s Poker: RIsing Through the Wreckage on Wall Street by Michael Lewis | Amazon
- Coupa Cafe Customers Can Buy Items with Bitcoins | Palo Alto Online
- The Future Has Arrived — It’s Just Not Evenly Distributed Yet | Quote Investigator
- The Holy Grail: How to Outsource the Inbox and Never Check Email Again | The Tim Ferriss Blog
- Why Email Is So Stressful, Even Though It’s Not Actually That Time-Consuming | HBR
- Interactive Archives | SXSW
- How the Internet Was Born: From the ARPANET to the Internet | The Conversation
- 43 Folders Series: Inbox Zero | 43 Folders
- The Guy Who Invented Inbox Zero Says We’re All Doing It Wrong | Inc.com
- The Best (And Worst?) Autoresponders of 2007 | The Tim Ferriss Blog
- Tim Ferriss Interviewed by Robert Scoble | PodTech 2007
- PBwiki | Wikipedia
- The Rise and Fall of Getting Things Done by Cal Newport | The New Yorker
- The Scientists: A History of Science Told Through the Lives of Its Greatest Inventors by John Gribbin | Amazon
- On Pace and Productivity | Study Hacks
- Don’t Just Do Something; Stand There | Quote Investigator
- The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness by Morgan Housel | Amazon
- Morgan Housel — The Psychology of Money, Picking the Right Game, and the $6 Million Janitor | The Tim Ferriss Show #576
- How I Built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ Million Downloads — An Immersive Explanation of All Aspects and Key Decisions (Featuring Chris Hutchins) | The Tim Ferriss Show #538
- Geographic Arbitrage: How I Save $20000+ A Year Living Abroad | Nomadic Fire
- The Future of Work After COVID-19 | McKinsey
- 4-Hour Workweek Referenced | The Office S08E03 Lotto
- It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia: The 7 Secrets of Awakening the Highly Effective Four-Hour Giant, Today by The Gang | Amazon
- I Am So Over Productivity Porn | Bitches Get Riches
- Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown | Amazon
- Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen | Amazon
- Hyperfocus: How to Be More Productive in a World of Distraction by Chris Bailey | Amazon
SHOW NOTES
- Some of the first cracks in my post-Princeton life that hinted at the unsustainable nature of Silicon Valley workaholic culture and led me toward a realization that The 4-Hour Workweek might be a book worth writing. [07:36]
- The fatal flaw in my first startup that ensured I wouldn’t be able to easily sell it. [17:22]
- A snapshot of Silicon Valley in the early 2000s: a prototyping and testing ground for new technologies and a hotbed of hustling. [22:16]
- Cal says I mentioned email four times in the opening six minutes of my first South by Southwest talk. In retrospect, what bigger problems did this portend, and how was my approach somewhat transgressive, considering the audience? [26:44]
- Defying the cult of productivity to be more effective than efficient with the 80/20 principle (aka Pareto’s law). [39:43]
- On slow productivity and playing your own game while understanding the rules by which other people play theirs.[44:33]
- How the launch of this podcast was, in a sense, a reexamination of what my own game was after working on The 4-Hour Chef turned out to be more a labor of labor than love. [47:57]
- My mindset going into that first South by Southwest speech in 2007 and how I tried to make the pain points of efficiency relatable rather than presenting them as judgment against my go-getting, startup-hustling audience. [50:41]
- If prioritizing your own self-care inconveniences other people from time to time, so be it. (To the people pleasers in the audience, please reread that last sentence to yourself a little louder until it sticks.) [53:50]
- After the South by Southwest speech, what was the general reception like? What points seemed to resonate most with people? [56:44]
- How a mutual friend put concepts presented in The 4-Hour Workweek to work and changed his own life, how some of those concepts that were radical when the book was published 15 years ago are now considered commonplace, and which concepts I hope continue to gain momentum. [1:00:56]
- How the COVID-19 pandemic suddenly made the work-disrupting scenarios posited in The 4-Hour Workweek viable alternatives to the status quo rather than intangible, impossible thought experiments, though some challenges remain. [1:06:40]
- Pop culture references to The 4-Hour Workweek and common misinterpretations of its primary tenets that come from casual skimming and second-hand sources. [1:10:38]
- Digging deeper, why do so many readers who pick up the bestselling productivity and time management books seem to miss the points they’re really trying to make? [1:15:57]
- Cal’s optimistic parting thoughts that society is finally catching up with what The 4-Hour Workweek was trying to convey. [1:20:58]