“If I’m doing something that feels too well understood for too long, then I feel like I’m just being complacent.”
— Mark Zuckerberg
Mark Zuckerberg (FB/IG) is the founder, chairman, and CEO of Meta, which he originally founded as Facebook in 2004. Mark is responsible for setting the overall direction and product strategy for the company. In October 2021, Facebook rebranded to Meta to reflect all of its products and services across its family of apps and a focus on developing social experiences for the metaverse—moving beyond 2D screens toward immersive experiences like augmented and virtual reality to help build the next evolution in social technology.
He is also the co-founder and co-CEO of the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative with his wife Priscilla, which is leveraging technology to help solve some of the world’s toughest challenges—including supporting the science and technology that will make it possible to cure, prevent, or manage all diseases by the end of the twenty-first century.
Mark studied computer science at Harvard University before moving to Palo Alto, California, in 2004.
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear the episode Mark referred to as “a great podcast?” Listen to my conversation with Daniel Ek, in which we discuss the meaning of eldsjäl, European versus American parenting, books that stand out among the 60–70 Daniel reads annually, dealing with tough-to-hear feedback, Spotify’s internal two-year missions, speed vs. quality of iteration, and much more.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
- Connect with Mark Zuckerberg:
- Meta’s Ongoing Efforts Regarding Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine | Meta
- “I am donating 100% of my past book royalties from Russia and Ukraine to Ukrainian causes. This includes everything from The 4-Hour Workweek (2007) to Tribe of Mentors (2017)—five books in total…”
- Mark Fencing with Olympic Gold Medalist Lee Kiefer and World Champion Gerek Meinhardt | Facebook
- What Latin Sounded Like — And How We Know | NativLang
- The Face of Facebook | The New Yorker
- Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card | Amazon
- Virtual Reality vs. Augmented Reality vs. Mixed Reality | Intel
- Exhalation: Stories by Ted Chiang | Amazon
- Ready Player One: A Novel by Ernest Cline | Amazon
- Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson | Amazon
- Rainbows End: A Novel with One Foot in the Future by Vernor Vinge | Amazon
- Mark’s Connect 2021 Keynote Outlining the Metaverse Vision and Decision to Rebrand to Meta | Meta
- Once Mocked, Facebook’s $1 Billion Acquisition of Instagram Was a Stroke of Genius | Yahoo! Finance
- Ready Player One | Prime Video
- Breakthrough Technology for the Brain | Neuralink
- History of VR: Timeline of Events and Tech Development | Virtual Speech
- Eye Contact in Virtual Reality – A Psychophysiological Study | Computers in Human Behavior
- The AR, VR Future Coming in 2022: What We Learned from CES | CNET
- Virtual Reality for People with Disabilities | WalkinVR
- Types of Eye Movements and Their Functions | Neuroscience
- How to Reduce Motion Sickness in Virtual Reality | Wired
- A Digital Nation | Axie Infinity
- What Are Play-to-Earn Games? How Players Are Making a Living With NFTs | Decrypt
- Meta’s Social VR Platform Horizon Hits 300,000 Users | The Verge
- Mark’s Post on Meta’s New Company Values | Facebook
- Amazon Adds New Corporate Values as Jeff Bezos Prepares to Depart | CNET
- Horizon Workrooms for VR Remote Collaboration | Meta
- Web1, Web2, and Web3 with Their Differences | GeeksforGeeks
- Mark Zuckerberg Stands for Voice and Free Expression | Meta
- How to Create Your Metaverse Avatar on Facebook | iTech Post
- Facebook’s Commitment to the Oversight Board | Facebook
- The Facebook Oversight Board Proved It’s Not Mark Zuckerberg’s Puppet — Now It’s His Move | CNBC
- Daniel Ek, CEO of Spotify — Habits, Systems and Mental Models for Top Performance | The Tim Ferriss Show #484
- IQ vs. EQ: Which One Is More Important? | Verywell Mind
- Way of the Warrior Kid: From Wimpy to Warrior the Navy SEAL Way: A Novel by Jocko Willink and Jon Bozak | Amazon
- Jocko Willink on Discipline, Leadership, and Overcoming Doubt | The Tim Ferriss Show #187
- Shabbat 101 | My Jewish Learning
- The Torah | Amazon
- The Bible | Amazon
- Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman | Amazon
- Zuckerberg Drops Personal Challenges in Favor of Big-Picture Plans for the Decade | The Guardian
- Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain | Amazon
- Watch Mark Zuckerberg Speak Mandarin | The New York Times
- Facebook’s Royal Wedding | The New York Times
- eFoil Electric Surfboard | Lift Foils
- Foilin’ USA | Instagram
SHOW NOTES
- How did teenage Mark get involved in the world of competitive fencing? [07:01]
- What does Mark find particularly compelling about classical studies and history? [10:00]
- Influential and recommended science fiction related to virtual realities. [13:32]
- How do Mark and his team get an organization of a hundred thousand people on board with long-term project plans that can extend into the next decade and a half? [17:26]
- What does Mark do to get comfortable with discomfort and manage his energy for whatever the day throws his way? [23:05]
- How long does Mark think it will take for us to realize VR technology as immersive as presented in Ready Player One? What kind of progress can we expect to see in the not-too-distant future? [27:02]
- The challenges of making VR a satisfying, nausea-free experience for everyone. [33:35]
- Projections for the societal effects of people earning sustainable livelihoods in the metaverse. [39:00]
- The new values being built into Meta’s cultural operating system — and the old values being adapted — to prepare for a more distributed, more honest, and faster future. [44:16]
- Challenges presented by moving from a Web2 to a Web3 world. [57:35]
- Mark’s assessment of Meta’s oversight board. [1:03:07]
- To what does Mark credit the longevity of his unique partnership with Sheryl Sandberg, and in what ways has it shifted his life and business over the past 15+ years? What does he consider to be Sheryl’s superpowers? [1:07:49]
- How did Mark’s family dynamics growing up shape who he is today and how he parents his own children? [1:12:52]
- What role, if any, does religion play in Mark’s life? [1:20:40]
- Did Mark go through an emo phase early in life? [1:24:53]
- Of the annual personal challenges Mark undertook for 10 years, which were the easiest — and the most difficult? [1:26:12]
- Does Mark foresee navigating the metaverse on multiple mobile devices running OSes not necessarily under Meta’s control, or will there be a more efficient, unifying device in the works? [1:30:49]
- Parting thoughts. [1:35:15]
MORE MARK ZUCKERBERG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW
“If I’m doing something that feels too well understood for too long, then I feel like I’m just being complacent.”
— Mark Zuckerberg
“Let’s constantly be doing something that can be doubted. Because if we’re not, then what are we doing?”
— Mark Zuckerberg
“If it’s obvious to everyone that we’re going to be able to do each of the things that we’re working on, then I don’t feel like we’re making the most of what we need to do.”
— Mark Zuckerberg
“How you get an organization of a hundred thousand people through something is about managing your own psychology and about managing your team’s psychology.”
— Mark Zuckerberg
“One of the things that I’ve always found is you can … get an organization and a team through almost any challenge as long as you can maintain good cohesion. When our stock price goes down, that doesn’t make me not sleep at night. When there’s a new competitor, that doesn’t make me not sleep at night. If there’s an issue on my team and there isn’t good cohesion, then I’m not sleeping well until I resolve that.”
— Mark Zuckerberg
PEOPLE MENTIONED
- Priscilla Chan
- Bruce Lee
- Augustus
- Ted Chiang
- Jon Stewart
- Stephen Colbert
- Eye of Sauron
- Andrew Grove
- Andrew Bosworth
- Sheryl Sandberg
- Douglas Hofstadter
- Jeff Bezos
- Dan Rosensweig
- Noah Feldman
- Daniel Ek
- Warren Buffett
- Charlie Munger
- Mark’s Parents and Siblings
- Jocko Willink
- Tobi Lütke
- Oliver Burkeman
The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.
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Liked the Aldous Huxley excerpt best!
While watching/hearing several of your podcasts, which i find engaging and useful, I wonder why you have not yet interviewed Tom Peters, from a performance/excellence perspective, who wrote probably the first book on excellence(?), but was a very interesting and very smart guy…He is likely in his 80s now(?), but hearing him through your podcast may be really interesting.
I listened very closely, but couldn`t get anything out of it for the fist time. Nor do I think Mr Z. is very credible in his statements. You can tell the values of a leader of an organisation by what the company does. If You take the many words on the topic “values”, and observe what e.g. Whatsapp does (terms of use), there is no match. This interview is like the company Meta itself: an empty case. Although Tim does as usual, a superb job.
Mark who?
Tim, this episode is extremely anticipated by millions of your listeners including me. I think you’ve done extremely proud job of interviewing Mark Zuckerberg, I wouldn’t even think you would be able to interview Mark Zuckerberg on your podcast, this is extremely heart-warming. The Tim Ferriss Show changed my life. The Tim Ferriss Show helped me to get through really painful times in my life.
It’s thanks to your podcast I successfully navigated ages 16, 17 and 18
You are the living light that guides mankind.
Tim Ferriss, you are a living legend and believe it or not, you have changed my life considering the fact that I live in a rural town in Pakistan, within the confines of Rawalpindi, Punjab, Pakistan.
Yet, your content and guest choice, never ceases to surprise me. I am starstruck and in awe. How do you get to interview Mark on your podcast?
I wish you the best.
Continue changing lives and making the world a better place.
P.S. another great guest I’d love you to interview is Robert Greene, the author of 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, 33 Strategies of War, and more recently The Laws of Human Nature and The Daily Laws. Great guest choice
(I am blown away…. haha in a good way!)
anticipated by millions of your listeners? shocked probably more like it smh at your new direction and the recommendation of 48 laws etc is case in point why im unsubscribing
In this interview, there were several mentioned of a “short pre-recording” meeting that happened before the recording. How often does that happen? Is that something that you request or is this a request from the guest?
Tim–I’ve been a long time listener and admirer of your podcasts. You are a well informed and sensitive interviewer. But Zuckerberg? His absolute and complete denial of FB’s role in the disintegration of real social discourse, among so many other pernicious developments in our country….well it just made me so mad to listen to him. How can you be a real innovator or a leader with out facing these kinds of truths? I understand you didn’t want to open that can of worms but I have to say (sorry for mixing metaphors) it was the big fat elephant in the room. Boo, hiss.
So this is what happens when your stock is down 50% – you need to go on a publicity blitz on all the cool kids’ podcasts…
Zuckerberg talks like a product and marketing manager. He does not sound like the head of one of the world’s largest media communication companies. Wouldn’t it be great for Mark to cut back on his surfing time and address the harms that his company’s products cause, or is he simply not up to the task?
In all fairness, our lawmakers need to get rid of the law that protects media companies from their content and make laws to protect our data privacy and address the anti-competitive behavior of Meta.
Hi Tim, Thanks for this interview. Do you not feel that Facebook, Meta etc have been doing unethical things pretty much ever since their inception (such as endangering the health of teenagers, as evidenced by whistleblower Frances Haugen, and also the documentary ‘Social dilemma’)? And therefore can Mark Zuckerberg and Meta even be trusted with doing the right thing? Trust needs to be earned, in my opinion, and I’m not so sure Zuckerberg has earned my trust (and I’m not the only one). I totally understand if you disagree, but would be good to hear your thoughts.
Unfortunately my first Tim podcast that left me underwhelmed. I’m just not buying what the ‘master of the meta verse’ is selling. Lots left on the table.
An interesting, thorough interview that really got to the core of who Mark Zuckerberg is, or like us to think he is. I understand that there were probably several ground rules that were required to get a guest of this caliber.
Still I wonder if during your friendly interererview you could have gently asked him about how he plans on monetizing meta and whether his thoughts on privacy have evolved. I know he’s been asked these questions in other places, but I think keeping the nature of your comfortable interview style, his answers might have been more enlightening than those in the past.
Overall, a solid friendly interview.
Another superb job: a relaxed and genuine conversation which humanises a figure who’s public profile and company profile have grown beyond what many could imagine or manage. So rich in content I listened to it twice. Lots more ground to cover. Definitely need a round 2. Would second the recommendation for ‘Way of the Warrior Kid’ and would have loved to know how as a parent Mark navigates the challenges of screentime with his kids – what rules and boundaries if any. It’s a challenge most parents wrestle with and he’s better informed than most. Top job Tim and Mark.
Such a great interview. I loved the insight and also revisiting the principles for Meta. Good one.
Ok. Fencing? That was staged, wasn’t it? Still, liked the Podcast. Z reveals a lot of his personality by just talking himself up and up in a positive feedback loop. Well, I have to meditate every morning, not having the chance surfing off the coast of Kauai to reset my mind. Z is detached, who can blame him? Congrats to you Tim for getting him for a podcast! For Elon we have to wait until his stock looses a third, too, probably.
Anyway, keep up the good work!
Martin
He skirted round the issue of censorship by using the examples of terrorism and child trafficking and the difference between having a chat in your front room to the village square. What I am very unhappy about is censoring alternative opinions, particularly scientific. So it is no longer censoring of misinformation, it is just information, if it does not fall in line with the narrative. That is what authoritarians do Mr Facebook.
Thank you for the positive information. I have been working on my blog for a few months now and am encouraged by your information.