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Dr. Martine Rothblatt — A Masterclass on Asking Better Questions and Peering Into the Future (#487)

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Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.

— Dr. Martine Rothblatt

Martine Rothblatt (@skybiome) is chairperson and CEO of United Therapeutics, a biotechnology company she started to save the life of one of her daughters. The company offers FDA-approved medicines for pulmonary hypertension and neuroblastoma and is working on manufacturing an unlimited supply of transplantable organs.

Dr. Rothblatt previously created and led Sirius XM as its chairman and CEO and launched other satellite systems for navigation and international television broadcasting. In the field of aviation, her Sirius XM satellite system enhances safety with real-time digital weather information to pilots in flight nationwide. She also designed the world’s first electric helicopter and piloted it to a Guinness world record for speed, altitude, and flight duration.

In the legal arena, Dr. Rothblatt led efforts of the transgender community to establish their own health law standards and of the International Bar Association to protect autonomy rights in genetic information via an international treaty. She also published dozens of scholarly articles and papers on the law of outer space, resulting in her election to the International Institute of Space Law, and represented the radio astronomy community’s scientific research interests before the Federal Communications Commission.

She has bachelor’s (communications studies, summa cum laude), JD (Order of the Coif) and MBA degrees from UCLA, which in 2018 awarded her its highest recognition, the UCLA Medal, and she holds a PhD in medical ethics from the Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry. Her patented inventions cover aspects of satellite communication, medicinal biochemistry, and cognitive software.

Dr. Rothblatt’s recent books are on xenotransplantation (Your Life or Mine), gender identity (Transgender to Transhuman), and cyberethics (Virtually Human). She occasionally posts on Instagram at @transbinary and Twitter at @skybiome.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by FreshBooks cloud-based small business accounting software, Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#487: Dr. Martine Rothblatt — The Incredible Polymath of Polymaths

This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. I’ve been talking about FreshBooks—an all-in-one invoicing + payments + accounting solution—for years now. Many entrepreneurs, as well as the contractors and freelancers that I work with, use it all the time.

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear another episode with someone who took a lightning bolt to her soul for science? Listen to my conversation with Columbia physics and astronomy professor Janna Levin, in which we discuss youthful indiscretion, omnivorous reading, Möbius strips, philosophy 101, UFOs, and much more.

#445: Janna Levin on Extra Dimensions, Time Travel, and How to Overcome Boots in the Face

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

  • Connect with Martine Rothblatt:

Twitter | Instagram

SHOW NOTES

  • Why is Martine such a fan of Alan Watts and his exploration about what it means to be human, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are? [07:19]
  • Did Martine find the movie Her to be a compelling presentation of how artificial sentience and human beings might coexist? [09:41]
  • Who or what is BINA48? Does Martine think we’re anywhere near achieving convincingly realized simulations of humans as seen in Black Mirror season two, episode one Be Right Back? [10:32]
  • Growing up, who did Martine count as her role models and inspirations? [14:04]
  • How did Martine start a biotechnology company to save the life of one of her daughters in spite of only having taken biology in high school? What did it take to even comprehend the scope of such an endeavor, and what was the journey that made it a reality? [15:33]
  • What were the three incorrect assumptions pharmaceutical company Glaxo Wellcome made in not pursuing production of the drug from which Martine’s company has since made billions of dollars? [27:12]
  • When did Martine first fall in love with the satellite communication systems that would lead to the creation of satellite radio company SiriusXM? [32:33]
  • What can we do to cultivate more scientific literacy in our society? Are there any resources Martine would recommend to someone looking to increase their own fluency in science? What one-word question fires the imagination of curious adults as well as any four-year-old? [36:30]
  • Coming out as transgender at age 40, how did Martine relate to gender in her younger years? How did her American predisposition to question authority play into this? [43:41]
  • What does Martine mean when she says she didn’t identify as strictly male or female, and how might this be expressed by others going through similar, but not necessarily identical journeys of self-discovery? [47:25]
  • What were the biggest decisions Martine made along her gradual path of transition? [49:29]
  • Now that we can map the human genome, Martine elaborates on the need for an international treaty to guarantee autonomy rights and genetic information protections. [50:38]
  • How an isolated population in South America relates to Martine’s efforts to make the shortage of transplantable organs (like hearts, livers, and kidneys) a thing of the past. [53:45]
  • What is the vagus nerve, and how is United Therapeutics attempting to manipulate it for the purpose of therapy in conditions such as Crohn’s disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and rheumatoid arthritis? How do recent discoveries in this area of research lend credibility to ancient therapies like acupuncture? [59:07]
  • Martine talks about her patent for an Alzheimer’s cognitive enabler and what inspired its invention, and I recommend a documentary for people curious about how music can act as therapy for people in even the most advanced stages of Alzheimer’s disease. [1:08:50]
  • How did the family practice of “love nights” come about in the Rothblatt household? How is it observed now that Martine’s children have grown up and have households of their own in a year when COVID keeps everyone from coming together physically? What have been some of the most unique answers to the question “What does love mean to you?” and how might you answer this? [1:16:13]
  • Does Martine believe it will be possible for machines to someday understand and experience what love means in the same way we do? If so, when might we expect the breakthrough that will make this possible? [1:22:00]
  • For Martine, what are some of the most important ethical questions or considerations related to technology as we move into future decades? [1:27:36]
  • What common contemporary practices does Martine think future generations will view as barbaric or backward? [1:31:02]
  • Against popular projections that such a thing wouldn’t be possible on a grand scale until 2050 (or so), how did United Therapeutics build a zero-carbon-footprint headquarters in 2019? [1:36:16]
  • Elevating the “Reduce, reuse, recycle” slogan to a new level, how does United Therapeutics refurbish lungs deemed unusable — a process that has so far saved over 150 lives? [1:39:11]
  • “Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.” Why United Therapeutics didn’t hop on immediate efforts to create a COVID-19 vaccine, but opts instead to develop therapies for people suffering from the long-term effects of the virus. [1:43:27]
  • What would Martine’s billboard say? [1:46:14]
  • Martine’s advice for people who struggle to find the positives in life. [1:47:26]
  • Parting thoughts. [1:50:48]

PEOPLE MENTIONED

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.

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Rebecca Morris
Rebecca Morris
3 years ago

I just discovered your book The 4 Hour Body and have 2 questions. Since it was written in 2010 (as you know 😊), will it be updated or is everything in it still current? And I am 66 yrs old, healthy, no issues. I have registered to do a Spartan Race in a year, but because of covid I have gained weight and all the progress I made at the gym. So I now need to lose weight and get my strength and endurance back. Is this book a good fit for me? Thank you.

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Lawrence Jean-Louis
Lawrence Jean-Louis
3 years ago

Thanks for this podcast. Opens up your mind, and makes you reconsider a few things. Love what Dr. Rothblatt mentioned about initially reading in an effort to find a cure for her/his daughter’s illness.

Interesting mention re: the vagus nerve. How stimulating it has shown to have positive effect on body, documented in Crohn’s disease, etc.

Re: building a nuclear plant, agree that the individual should have the consent of nearby communuties, but they should also have the appropriate moral code… and regulations should be in place.

Love the term techno ethics. Appreciate mention of Ray Kurzweil too… a fan. Caught a webinar of his with Dr. Peter Diamandis, where he was wearing suspenders and a colorful outfit(?). Prior to that, maybe discovered his talk(s) on TED.

Will listen to again. Didn’t realize there were side effects to individuals lungs who were affected by COVID. Amazing that their company is looking to pursue medicinal research to address.

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Gary
Gary
3 years ago

Long time listener, first time caller. Love the podcast. I have a suggestion. What if you were to ask your guests some variation of “What questions have you asked that help to guide your life?” For me, some of the most powerful moments of the interview are when we hear those. We’ve had a few good ones lately… envied / admired, what can you stop doing… Thank you Tim, great job!

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Dan Powell
Dan Powell
3 years ago

Thank you so much Tim for having such fascinating human on your show. Blew my mind on so many levels. How does one individual accomplish so much in such varied fields?! Well I can make a mean bowl of oatmeal. 😜

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Pedro
Pedro
3 years ago

$100K for his medicine, very conflicted on this sad reality.

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FIona
FIona
3 years ago

“The problem in most situations is not a lack of calling; but a fear of responding to the call.”

“Rather than the need to heroically save the whole world, the real work of humanity at this time may be to awaken the unique spark and inner resiliency of genius within each person.”

– Michael Meade.

.

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ne gibi
ne gibi
3 years ago

Really awesome informational thanks.

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Parth Zala
Parth Zala
3 years ago

Listened to this episode. Truly an inspiration. Not many times do you hear “I needed a pharmaceutical company so I created one”.

But my question is completely unrelated.

As a high school senior applying to Princeton (your alma mater), what advice do you have that would better my chances at admission, especially in a world like today’s.

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JSM
JSM
3 years ago

FYI to listeners – Dr. Rothblatt mentions vagal nerve stimulation as a treatment for IBS, but this is still being researched, and there are no studies with strong evidence this is the case. (There a FDA-approved device for an associated symptom in kids 11-18, but its a narrow scope). There is at least one study underway.

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Gal Kleinman
Gal Kleinman
3 years ago

Thanks Tim for this wonderful discussion with Dr. Rothblatt. Very insightful, inspiring and resonated with me on several levels.

I’m intrigued and passionate about how technology can be used in service of bringing about a peaceful world. We are able to split the atom and fly to the moon but we are unable to live in peace with one another. And change cultural and structural violence.

I believe peace is the one of the most, if not the most, cross cutting issue of our time. And in the deepest most meaningful sense humanities next evolutionary step – to live in a world based on cultures of peace.

I’d be interested to explore this question with you and other technologists and entrepreneurs.

Keep on the great work you are doing -:)

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Chad
Chad
3 years ago

I’ve listened to your podcast for many years as we have several mutual friends and found this episode extremely fascinating. I just wanted to thank you for the seemingly intentional and gracious choice of words when asking Martine about gender. It was refreshingly different from most media and considerate. I’m sure you get loads of hate mail or negative energy so I just wanted to send energy from the opposite side of that and express genuine gratitude.

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Michele Petryk
Michele Petryk
3 years ago

Long time listener, first time commenter. What a breathtaking interview. Thank you! My eldest child discovered she is transgender in her 20s. She’s studying computer engineering. Dr. Rothblatt is pure inspiration. These days there is so much agita in the world. This interview was a balm on a bruised soul. Please have her back as soon as you can!

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Ganesh Sundaresan
Ganesh Sundaresan
3 years ago

Tim – This was yet another amazing episode with someone who I had never heard of in the past.Truly a polymath and involved with so many things that are totally unrelated to each other but connected the dots so well. The Vegus nerve discussion about how there are only two places where it comes out to the body and those being the 2 ear lobes struck a nerve (pun unintended) with me. My son has a birth defect called microtia because of which he doesn’t have one ear fully formed. If you get a chance, would you be able to ask her if she had seen some research around ear deformities and the impact or lack thereof of some of the vegus nerve related advances?

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Tara Kutz
Tara Kutz
2 years ago

Fascinating interview. Is there any video footage of this recording?

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