The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts — The Random Show: Boozy Quarantine Edition! (#426)

Please enjoy this transcript of another “Random Show” episode with Kevin Rose (@KevinRose)—technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy. In this one we explore fine (and not-so-fine) wines, dog adoption, great fiction and non-fiction reads, anniversary celebration during quarantine, exotic meats and decadent desserts, skiing accidents, and much more.

Transcripts may contain a few typos—with some episodes lasting 2+ hours, it can be difficult to catch minor errors.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

DUE TO SOME HEADACHES IN THE PAST, PLEASE NOTE LEGAL CONDITIONS:

Tim Ferriss owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of The Tim Ferriss Show podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as his right of publicity.

WHAT YOU’RE WELCOME TO DO: You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The New York Times, LA Times, The Guardian), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “The Tim Ferriss Show” and link back to the tim.blog/podcast URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED: No one is authorized to copy any portion of the podcast content or use Tim Ferriss’ name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services. For the sake of clarity, media outlets are permitted to use photos of Tim Ferriss from the media room on tim.blog or (obviously) license photos of Tim Ferriss from Getty Images, etc.

Kevin Rose: I can hit Start Recording. Please, don’t crash. You never know if this shit’s going to crash, dude.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, for real.

Kevin Rose: It’s like I’m literally launching the software from like a Unix terminal. I kid you not. All right, so one thing before we get started, we should ask people, do our audio levels sound okay? Do you want to say “Testing one, two, three,” or something?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Testing. Testing one, two, three.

Kevin Rose: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to another episode of The Random Show. I am Kevin Rose.

Tim Ferriss: I am Tim Ferriss.

Kevin Rose: Tim Ferriss is, of course, a bestselling New York Times author, inventor of the term “The China Virus,” and — nah, I’m just kidding.

Tim Ferriss: True fact, true fact. Not true fact.

Kevin Rose: Not true fact. We’re thrilled, dude. This is awesome. This is like — what a great break from the chaos, then, to hang out.

Tim Ferriss: It is. Yeah, it is. I’ll give you credit for the idea of doing something live, which I think, at least for me, is very stress-reducing and calming amidst all this uncertainty, to have an actual time where you see your friends’ faces. I have not been drinking at all, so it’s actually exciting to have a little bit of boozy booze. Cheers, Kevin.

Kevin Rose: Cheers.

Tim Ferriss: And everybody out there.

Kevin Rose: Yes, to everyone watching.

Tim Ferriss: Thanks for joining. Well, let’s perhaps start with what we’re drinking here.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: What are you having?

Kevin Rose: Our mutual friend, Will Harlan, I’m having The Mascot 2012, which is a fantastic cabernet out of Napa Valley. Highly recommend checking out their site. Yeah, it’s called The Mascot and it’s one of my favorite cabs, for sure.

Tim Ferriss: This is something I just pulled out and I have no idea where this came from. I didn’t buy it. It is whatever that is. I can’t pronounce French particularly well. TYDY Sauvignon Blanc 2017.

Kevin Rose: Is this like someone sent this to you? If you didn’t buy it — ?

Tim Ferriss: I think it was — nah, I mean, almost all of my wine has been given to me. This just got yanked out, so I decided to go white, took a little magnesium threonate and LIC and a few other things to mitigate the hangover since I expect I’ll probably finish this during this conversation. We’ll see how that works. I think it could be futile, to be continued. What other contexts should we lay out before us?

Kevin Rose: Well, I put together a document before the show, a little shared Google Doc and you know, we have to figure out what we’re going to be talking about in the show. One of the things that I know we both wanted to address was just to say on a downbeat before we try and make this a little bit more of an upbeat show is just to say our thoughts are with everyone out there.

It’s an extremely difficult time. We all have stories of chaos and craziness and the ups and downs and emotional rollercoaster that’s going on right now in the world. We know that there’s people that are watching this that have been laid off. There’s people that are watching this that might even be sick or have friends or family that are sick. I’ll let you speak for yourself, Tim, but I know that, I mean, my thoughts are with all of you. It’s a really, really difficult time.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I want to echo all of that. I have family members who’ve been laid off. I have seen that amongst a lot of my friends, friends I grew up with. Our hearts go out to everyone. Thanks for joining. This is really, aside from the other things that we might be doing, just an attempt to offer a salve, even if just for an hour or two, to have a feeling of being connected with other folks.

Brian Koppelman, who is a friend of mine, co-creator of Billions, recently had on a podcast, he does something called The Royale every morning, which is his first cup of coffee. He takes a picture and he has other people post their pictures and it’s become this real vibrant community of people who look forward to this every day, so I figured at your recommendation, Kevin, that this would be a fun experiment just to allow everybody to hopefully take 60 minutes without looking at your Twitter feed or the bad news. There’s going to be plenty of bad news. It’s still going to be there later. You don’t have to look at it now.

It’s been heavy. It’s been really heavy. I don’t know about you, Kevin, but I was texting you before we started recording. I have lost, it’s not like I had that much weight to lose, but — 

Kevin Rose: I hate you.

Tim Ferriss: — well, I’ve lost, probably 15 pounds in the last four weeks. I’ve been in quarantine for five to six weeks.

Kevin Rose: I hate you.

Tim Ferriss: It’s been from — 

Kevin Rose: I’ve been eating pizza and chocolate, dude, like every night. I’m not kidding.

Tim Ferriss: Well, maybe — 

Kevin Rose: How are you losing weight?

Tim Ferriss: — well, maybe it’s that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it just changes form, so by me losing weight, I’m just putting it on your muffin top. That that could be. You’re welcome.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: You’ll last longer when we get to on The Road or Mad Max, you’ll live for a longer time, but the point being, I have been, even when I’m not consciously aware of it, quite under duress and have been having anxiety dreams and nightmares for the first time in God knows how long. I’ve never really had nightmares consistently. I’ve had trouble remembering to eat. I mean, that sounds crazy and I know some people might want to have that, but it’s been a strange period, a really strange period for me and for a lot of people.

Kevin Rose: I’ve got to say, Tim, that you were the first person that was warning me about this stuff months ago. When it first broke out and it was starting to gain a little traction in China, you were prepping big time, dude.

Tim Ferriss: I was, yeah.

Kevin Rose: I remember I was giving you shit. I was like, “Ah, I don’t know, man. Summer will come around, it’ll get hotter, this will die down,” and you were hardcore prepping. Props to you for calling it early. What are you doing? Where are you? Are you in a bunker somewhere? What’s going on in Tim’s life?

Tim Ferriss: I’m not — 

Kevin Rose: What is the screen behind you?

Tim Ferriss: — I know.

Kevin Rose: What the hell is going on?

Tim Ferriss: The decor is a bit intense. I am using my Scorsese cinematography to make this look really dramatic. I’m in a guest bedroom because I wanted to be hard-connected. The Internet is being hammered by everyone being home, so I have a — 

Kevin Rose: Netflix, Tiger King.

Tim Ferriss: — yeah, everyone. Yeah, exactly. PornHub Premium. Everyone’s killing bandwidth. I have an ethernet cable connected and it’s just easiest to set up in the guest bedroom.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, I know you have an ethernet-connected cable because you called my ass up so I could walk you through setting your motherfucking ethernet up.

Tim Ferriss: I did. I know. Thank you, tech support.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, I’ve got to send you a PayPal invoice for that, too.

Tim Ferriss: I’m in Austin, Texas. I’m quite happy to be here right now. My parents are in New York. That worries me, of course. They’re older, they’re not in the best of health, but there’s only so much has one can do.

Kevin Rose: I want to poke a little bit into it. If I go too far, you let me know.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: Your dad has been one to want to venture out and go out and think this is not a big deal. You and I’ve talked about this privately. Have you convinced him otherwise? Have you convinced him to stay home and avoid?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, he turned the corner. I think this has been a common experience for a lot of folks our age or even younger, to understandably have parents who have been through many so-called crises who have been resistant to completely stop all of what they’re doing, which I think is a very understandable position. Then you add in the political polarity. You probably want to — 

Kevin Rose: I mean, dude, why not?

Tim Ferriss: We’ll go to greener pastures in a minute, but the point is that he, to his credit, when I was able to separate the politics from the science and talk about the science, he listened to it and he took it seriously. I’m perhaps more fortunate than some in that both my parents are taking this very seriously, which is great. Yeah.

Kevin Rose: It’s tough because my mom’s going to be 80 this year. She’s living still by herself, but assisted in that she has to have someone come by and help her with meal preparation and things like that. She needs care. She can’t live on her own anymore, just totally solo and independently, but she’s doing well.

It’s tough because I was talking to my sister today and this new stack coming out saying that 20 to 25 percent of people are asymptomatic and they have no symptoms at all and my mom’s like, “Hey, when are you going to see me?” Of course, I video with her and stuff like that, but I’m like, “Okay, well, Mom, tomorrow if the weather is okay, meaning if it’s not raining in Portland, I’ll come over with a mask on and sit six feet away from you and we can have a chat.” That will be the way that I interact with my mom.

In a way, it’s heartbreaking because I have two young kids and they don’t get to see Grandma and they haven’t for weeks now, so it’s stressful for everybody out there, man. It’s like, it doesn’t matter who you are, it’s like everybody’s got something that’s weighing on them.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: Then you’re locked in the close quarters with your girlfriend and I’m locked in closed doors with my wife. Not to say that that’s a bad thing, but it’s unusual to have that much straight up one-on-one time, right?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: How’s that going?

Tim Ferriss: It’s going well. I think it’s like for those people who haven’t been to Burning Man, what they say about couples going to Burning Man is it’s double or nothing, right, because you’re going to be with each other 24/7, you’re going to have all of these additional stresses. I think we’re seeing that now.

We’ve developed a routine. Part of the benefit, if you want to call it that, of having been in quarantine for almost six weeks now, and I have some preexisting lung issues, so I’ve been extra careful, is that we’ve adopted certain routines and had these emergent habits and rituals that have become really nice, actually, some of them, but certainly, there’s more pressure in the container. Whatever cracks you may have, and everybody has their cracks, are going to be a lot more obvious.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: I was talking to a friend of mine who was saying it’s like a magnifying glass that shows you your psychological Achilles’ heel. I’m trying to view that as an opportunity, right, as a real opportunity where if you’re at home, if you’re in quarantine, putting aside financial considerations, which I know are very real for a lot of people, but many people who are watching this are going to be safe at home, so you’re basically in a padded room, like a Chuck E. Cheese ball pit where you get to see these things that are weaknesses/unresolved issues/opportunities that you can start to work on and then will translate to other areas later, right, in your life.

One of the bullets that we had to discuss, which we could certainly talk about, I’ll keep drinking, which will give me some liquid personality and higher confidence, which is dangerous, but one of the bullets that you’d shot over, any good books worth reading now? I’d be curious to start there because I have some thoughts.

Actually, I’ll just throw one out there, which is called Already Free. It’s by, I believe, Bruce Tift, T-I-F-T. I’ve highlighted so much of this book, it’s hard to believe. It’s closely related to, and I might have mention this book to you already, Kevin, I think, The Surrender Experiment or the Michael Singer courses that you’ve spoken about before.

Kevin Rose: I love Michael Singer stuff, yeah.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, but this book, Already Free, has been quite impactful for me and puts a lot in perspective. That’s one book that I’ve been thinking more about, also, as I sit at home and cannot escape myself. There are only so many things you can do to distract and busy yourself within the square footage of your house, but what other books? Doesn’t have to be related to the psychological stuff. What other books do you think are perhaps helpful to read and what are you reading?

Kevin Rose: Well, I think there’s, there’s two that come to mind. One is definitely that a lot of people that are fortunate enough, not everyone is in this position, but that are fortunate enough to transition to online work are having to deal with a whole new set of tools and a whole new way of working.

Jason Fried, who I’ve had on my podcast — have you had him on your podcast? Have you had Fried on yet?

Tim Ferriss: I have, yeah, about a year-and-a-half, two years ago. Very smart guy.

Kevin Rose: I mean, just brilliant. He was way ahead of his time in writing the book, Remote, and he has a couple of other books about remote and distributed culture that are fantastic. Definitely check out the book, Remote, from him. If you have a small business and you’re looking to transition to more remote or you yourself are going through this, it’s a great one to recommend to your boss or to read yourself. That one is definitely at the top of my list for people. We have 300 entrepreneurs at our founders at True Ventures, so that’s definitely one that I’m recommending to a lot of them.

Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing, I think, is another great one. I know it’s tough to talk about investing in times like this, but if you look back historically, the best time to place bets and that can be literally, tens of dollars because there’s such beautiful things now that exist such as fractional-share ownership, apps like Square Cash and Robinhood and others allow you to buy just a fraction of a share if you can’t afford, say, a $300 share of pick any major big company out there.

John Bogle, who’s since passed away, he’s the founder of Vanguard. He was a big fan of index investing and so is, actually, Warren Buffett. Index investing is not picking individual stocks, but buying a market, say like the S&P 500 or an index of the bond market. It really has been proven as to be one of the best, most reliable ways to invest. It outperforms hedge funds long term.

John Bogle, the creator of Vanguard, was really the pioneer in coming up with this concept and creating the mutual fund, index fund, mutual funds way back in the day. Anyway, that guide, Bogleheads’, his last name is Bogle and his fans are called “Bogleheads.” It’s B-O-G-L-E Head’s Guide to Investing. I think it’s a fantastic book. It will introduce you to the concept of index investing, which is really tried and true and the best way to go. It’s definitely something that was something I read probably a decade ago and then continue to reread every few years.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, Joel Greenblatt’s books are also quite good. I think it’s like The Little Blue Book of Investing or Little Green Book, Joel Greenblatt. I think he once said to me, I don’t think I’m talking out of school by saying this, but that you should effectively read his books in the opposite order they were published, so read from the most recent to the oldest.

The oldest talks a lot about event-based investing, which is very, very interesting. Exactly. Somebody, I. Segel, How to Be a Stock Market Genius. Terrible title on some level, kind of like The 4-Hour Workweek. Excellent, excellent, excellent book. I second Bogle as a recommendation.

You know what I’ve been paying a lot of attention to, Kevin, because it’s like in bear markets, bull markets, domestic, international, what has outperformed almost every other asset class? Can you guess?

Kevin Rose: Don’t say “real estate.” I hope you’re safe.

Tim Ferriss: Porn ETFs.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, that’s all you. You’re big into that in the marijuana stocks.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I’m 50/50 porn and marijuana.

Kevin Rose: Tim’s portfolio right there.

Tim Ferriss: Yep.

Kevin Rose: You should post that online.

Tim Ferriss: My rule number one of investing: Never underestimate human vice. That’s not true. That’s a lie.

Kevin Rose: What were you going to say? What was it?

Tim Ferriss: No, that was it. It was just a layup, setup for a joke, setup for a joke. I will say, though, on the investing front that no matter what, everyone who is listening to this or watching this right now, I think, should think of themselves as investors because you have resources, you have, say, time, you have energy, you have hours, you have capital, and you choose how to allocate those resources. If you have to choose, and you do, not choosing is also a decision, you are an investor, right? You’re looking for a result or a return on investment from allocating those different resources.

You can really think like an investor, even if you don’t have much disposable income at the moment or no income. You can still think of yourself as an investor and hone the thinking, the types of thinking and the process of good investors. That’s where these books, I think, are very interesting. I read a lot of these books, books by Bogle, books by Joel Greenblatt, I read his books when I had absolutely fuck all.

Kevin Rose: Same, yeah.

Tim Ferriss: I had nothing, nothing. It’s been like a slow simmer with that in the background for a long time and now, very fortunately, you and I are in positions where we can utilize it, but we prepared in a sense beforehand, right?

I mean, I was reading books on investing when I had not a penny to my name. This is, I think, a good time, a good time to, even if you don’t have money to invest, to read about investing and to paper trade, right? There are probably apps that allow you to do this very easily, but to effectively say, “All right, let’s pretend that I have $1,000 right now, or $10,000. Where would I put that money?” You make a record of where you’ve committed hypothetically to put that money.

Kevin Rose: Bitcoin.

Tim Ferriss: Then you look at the performance over time and you can look at if you are right, if you are wrong, to what degree you are right or wrong, and why you think you are right or wrong. Bitcoin, you’re more of a crypto expert than I am. I’m not. I know very little of crypto, but I do think it’s important to emphasize that the way you end up being a good investor, from my perspective, is by thinking a lot about the types of decision making that makes a good investor before you actually start allocating money to things.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: Does that make sense?

Kevin Rose: Yeah. I really like what you said around thinking about how to invest your own time during times like this as well. I have two examples of that. One, I know someone that is working part-time, still has a little bit of income but doesn’t have the other portion of their income and is now going to take online classes as far as they can go to become a nurse and he said, “This is the perfect time to do that,” and I know someone else that’s laid off and was like, “Hey, where’s the best coding school that I can learn how to code?” And it was like, “Now’s the time. I’m going to be collecting unemployment for the next few months. There’s not going to be any crazy great job opportunities, but I want to learn how to code and I know that that can be done in six months time.” Right? Now’s a great time to invest in yourself in some sense.

Tim Ferriss: Do you want to talk about — I know you put this in your newsletter recently, maybe today — Treehouse? Other options? Where should people go?

Kevin Rose: Yeah. I mean there’s a ton of options out there.

Tim Ferriss: Lambda School? I’m reading comments. Tim Ferriss is multitasking. I’m reading your goddamn comments.

Kevin Rose: No, it’s great actually if people want to post them in the comments. Yeah, freeCodeCamp, there’s a ton. I hesitate to recommend Treehouse because I’m an investor there. It is a high-quality product, but there’s a lot of free ones out there.

Tim Ferriss: Kevin, talking his book. He’s talking his book. Don’t listen to that guy.

Kevin Rose: No, you know what I mean? We get in trouble anytime we say anything like that, but Codeacademy is another great one. There’s a lot of them. Here’s what I would say. This is the real talk. Go out there, sign up for three of them and figure out which ones you like. Take a couple of classes on each one and be like, “This instructor is talking to me more. They’re speaking to me more than another one. I’m going to go with this one.” And maybe it’s a paid one and maybe it’s a free one, who knows? But try a few.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. YouTube is also, honestly, just incredible. I know a number of people who have gotten really up to speed on everything from virology to options trading on YouTube, and these are really smart people, and they’ve found some of the best options for free on YouTube.

Kevin Rose: Turns out that YouTube is a popular thing.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. I know I’ve heard of it. I’ve heard of it.

Kevin Rose: I’ve heard of that YouTube.

Tim Ferriss: Little late to the party, but — 

Kevin Rose: I love the comments like, “Yes, Tim. Thank you. YouTube, yes. Love YouTube.” Everyone loves YouTube, Tim. Good rec.

Tim Ferriss: Yep. Yep. You’re welcome. I am the bleeding edge of new technology. Good Lord.

Kevin Rose: Love it.

Tim Ferriss: What else would you find helpful to read right now, Kevin?

Kevin Rose: Honestly, man — 

Tim Ferriss: What are you reading? What are you actually reading?

Kevin Rose: I’m not reading. What I’m doing right now is listening to podcasts about the coronavirus. I think that Peter Attia has converted his podcast, The Drive, into a fantastic resource for the latest research on coronavirus. What we should be doing, what happens if you come down with it — we all have our little — actually I don’t know if you’re comfortable sharing your medical — what would you do if you — should we talk about that or no? Do people want to hear that?

Tim Ferriss: What would I do if what?

Kevin Rose: If you came down with it? What would you — 

Tim Ferriss: No. I think that’s dangerous territory.

Kevin Rose: Because it’s medical advice, right?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: I think if we were to give both, and we’re not giving investment advice, we’re not registered investment advisors, but I think if we wanted to make this the perfect Venn diagram of unnecessary liability, then we could talk about medical, but I think it would be irresponsible. I will say this, that I am optimistic. I’m bullish about therapeutics for coronavirus, in other words, treatments that will not necessarily cure so to speak, but mitigate the severity of COVID-19. I’m less optimistic about vaccine development.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. Well, at least in the short-term obviously, right. There’s nothing that can happen for 18 months.

Tim Ferriss: Well, short-term meaning 12 to 18 months.

Kevin Rose: 18 months. Yeah, exactly. 12 months would be a miracle.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. It’d be a world record.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: And it could be, I mean who knows, right? If we’re talking about the US and this is really a global issue, but the US is going to be the largest hot spot in the world.

Kevin Rose: Oh, dude. It already is.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. No, I’m just saying it’s going to be — we were looking at maps before we started recording.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: And you were like, “This is going to look like the Verizon availability map.”

Kevin Rose: It does. It looks like the Verizon availability chart, the US map does. It’s ridiculous.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. I mean we’re going to be all red.

Kevin Rose: Why do you think that is? I have my suspicions, but I’m curious why you think that is, and let’s not talk about Trump.

Tim Ferriss: No, no, no, no. I think it has actually very little to do with Trump. We’re not going to be all red. I take it back. We’re going to be red based on how the maps are represented because they make the red circles large based on the number of cases in a given location. Therefore, when you zoom out and you look at a map of the United States, even New York kind of swallows the entire Northeast.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, sure.

Tim Ferriss: So there’s a challenge, Edward Tufte style, in visual representation for that map. But we will be, based on how we’re currently representing that data, entirely red based on a distribution across, I say, in the short-term, Miami, New Orleans, et cetera. But if you look at the kinetics of the disease in, say, Washington compared to New York, it’s very, very different based on many factors.

Kevin Rose: In what sense?

Tim Ferriss: Well, if you look at the R naught, right? If you look at the replication of the virus, it’s very different based on population density and the dynamics.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, of course. I mean it has to be, right?

Tim Ferriss: Right, right. No, and that’s why, for instance, I wouldn’t expect South Dakota to be a huge hot spot.

Kevin Rose: Right, right. I get that. Idaho’s not going to be massive, right?

Tim Ferriss: Right.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: Right. So there will be, in some respects, firebreaks between places that could be hot spots. And my expectation a few weeks ago was that because the US is loath to impose any strict type of geographic lockdown, that from New York, the places that would explode would be where all the second homes are, from people who are escaping New York. In other words, Nantucket, Martha’s Vineyard, Connecticut, upstate New York, Long Island and Florida.

Kevin Rose: Right.

Tim Ferriss: And then you have event-based jumps in cases such as spring break based in Florida plus then in the returning students, say, to Texas. 44 cases, I believe, yesterday. And then you have Mardi Gras, New Orleans.

Kevin Rose: Right.

Tim Ferriss: So I’m extremely happy that South By didn’t happen in Austin.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, thanks for helping push that. That was huge.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. My pleasure. Certainly got a lot of shit for it at the time, but I felt pretty confident in the data. But we’re talking a lot about COVID, I don’t know if we want to keep going it, but the point I was going to make is therapeutics, optimistic, vaccine, pessimistic, but I really reel like — well, I should say I’m more optimistic now than I was four weeks ago about how the US can recover reasonably quickly — and recover’s not the right word. What I mean is implement a phased approach to reintroducing people to jobs and economic activity.

Kevin Rose: So here’s my three-step plan, if you will.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, Kevin’s three-step plan.

Kevin Rose: Well, number one, we need to be testing anyone and everyone. I have a nanny that helps with our two kids. She got extremely sick, had chest issues where she couldn’t breathe, fever, the whole gamut — everything you would check as a box of, “Okay, you have it,” right? She’s been home now for a week and a half. She went to the emergency room two days ago in Portland, Oregon, and they would not test her because she didn’t walk in with a fever. She didn’t have an active fever. We have to be insanely aggressive about testing. That’s one.

Number two, people that have recovered, we need antibody tests and they need to say, “I’ve been recovered and can return to work.” We need to know who those people are and give them the green light to go back and help start things up again, right? I think that’s insanely important. One of the things that we need to good at — and this is going to be important six, eight months from now, is really when we do see a flare-up, do that contact tracing and really telling people to lock down because it’s not just going to go away. We’re going to have flare-up after flare-up after flare-up. We have make sure that we’re really aggressive about contact tracing and making sure that people stay home if they’ve been in contact with someone that’s infected.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been on texts on the phone quite a bit today with two different groups who are developing digital contact tracing technologies and there are already a number of apps that have been developed, for instance in Singapore, that work very well. And Singapore is kind of like New Zealand in the sense that it’s pretty small, right? It’s self-contained and it makes for a good laboratory. So I am optimistic that if there are phased steps put in place with enforcement, that is in all caps, with enforcement and penalties for those who do not comply.

Kevin Rose: Did you see them beating people with sticks in India to stay inside?

Tim Ferriss: I did. Yeah.

Kevin Rose: That was crazy. We could never do that in the United States.

Tim Ferriss: No.

Kevin Rose: There were literally dudes on scooters hitting people with rods to stay inside.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Yeah. As much as I would like to do that, there are criminal penalties — and Nepal, similar story.

Kevin Rose: Something to be said about it though, man. They get people to stay in and it wasn’t like they were beating them where they’re breaking bones. It’s just like a bad spanking. It’s weird, but — 

Tim Ferriss: I mean a really bad spanking, these are like bow staffs. But the X factor for me is a non-compliant population in the United States.

Kevin Rose: Right. Defiant almost.

Tim Ferriss: By design and by cultural evolution, a defiant, disobedient population — and we shall see how a politically divided country is able to implement or not implement strict — basically the less strict we are in the next month or two, the longer this is going to last, right?

Kevin Rose: Sure.

Tim Ferriss: And you have a lot of perverse incentives involved with, say, folks who are hoping for reelection, and if it’s a short-term reelection, they’re willing to make compromises for public health in order to at least appear as though they’re attempting to reinvigorate the economy to serve their political interests, which is disgusting but totally understandable. And really, I think a lot of it has to come and I don’t know if it can legally, at least at this point, from the federal level. There have to be really, really strict penalties for violation of breaking, say, home quarantine or isolation rules.

Kevin Rose: It’s going to be so tough, man.

Tim Ferriss: In Korea, it escalated from four to $8,000 US in the equivalent in won. In, where was it? I can’t recall — maybe the Philippines, actually. I could pull it up here. Let me tell you, said that those who violate the lockdown orders could be shot.

Kevin Rose: That’s a little hardcore for us, Tim, here in the States.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Philippines. Philippines’ president says, “Violators of lockdown measures could be shot.”

Kevin Rose: It is a little much.

Tim Ferriss: I’m not saying — yeah. China, Shenzhen, also banned cat and dog meat consumption. That’s a separate story.

Kevin Rose: Chad says, “Spain fines up to 30,000 dollars.” I don’t know if that’s dollars or not.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, exactly

Kevin Rose: Euros.

Tim Ferriss: So I do think that without punishments/rewards, that a lot of this is wishful thinking.

Kevin Rose: UK is 30 pounds. That’s what somebody said.

Tim Ferriss: 30, yeah, 30 pounds. It’s a fucking joke. I mean, come on.

Kevin Rose: What do you do on the food front? Do you have a freezer full of shit or what are you doing?

Tim Ferriss: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean I’m fully —

Kevin Rose: Bison and shit, you have crazy meats.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I’ve got axis deer. I’ve got venison.

Kevin Rose: I knew it. I knew that.

Tim Ferriss: I have hundreds of pounds of meat and everything I could possibly need.

Kevin Rose: Holy crap. Yeah. People are saying that’s Joe Rogan style, is what people said in the comments.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Rogan’s got his elk. I’ve got my axis deer.

Kevin Rose: People are asking what kind of wine glass this is. It’s called Zalto. Z-A-L-T-O.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, you got the fancy shit. Yeah, I’ve got whatever these Costco bumbling idiot, uncoordinated person wine glasses are without the stem. That’s my jam.

Kevin Rose: Those are easy. Easy cleaning. You just throw those in the dishwasher.

Tim Ferriss: Let’s see. Let me look at some questions here. “Tim, do you live in a high-rise or a house?” I live in a house.

Kevin Rose: “Tim, please chug your wine,” said Icari123.

Tim Ferriss: I’m not going to chug my wine. No, thank you. I’m no longer 18. “Is now an ideal time to adopt a dog?” I would actually like to speak to this for a second.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: A lot of people are adopting dogs just as an excuse to be able to get outside. That’s actually something that’s been seen in New York City, for instance, where lots of people are adopting dogs who I’m not convinced have a long-term intention of keeping said dogs. That fucking bothers me. Having grown up on Long Island where city people, no offense to Manhattanites, would come out, adopt a dog for the summer just to keep their kids occupied, and then put their dog back in the pound at the end of the summer. And that, in my opinion, is fucked. I think you are morally corrupt if you do such things. So is it the ideal time to adopt a dog? If you’re going to keep that dog and you’re going to make your life fit around the dog, not the other way around, then I would say consider it. Don’t be a selfish prick.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, when you return to work, if you’re leaving your dog at home for extended periods of time, that’s not cool. They need interaction and love and attention, all that good stuff.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Question for you, Kevin, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this. Investing question, “Betterment/Wealthfront versus investing straight in Vanguard?” What do you think about that?

Kevin Rose: Yeah, I mean that’s hard. Well, I’m an investor in Wealthfront and I put that out in my newsletter today. I mentioned that.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, me too. Me too.

Kevin Rose: So you’re an investor as well? Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: I am as well.

Kevin Rose: Honestly though, I have used Betterment. I think it’s a great product. Think Wealthfront’s great too. I like the risk parity part that Wealthfront offers. And I’ve used Vanguard as well, just straight up Vanguard, to buy stuff and it’s fine. So I would say research them all and do whatever you’re comfortable with.

Tim Ferriss: That is the most lawyer response ever.

Kevin Rose: Well, dude, I don’t know what to — it’s self-serving to say, “Go use Wealthfront.” I love them, that’s why I invested. I think it’s a great product.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I know, but what do you like about them?

Kevin Rose: Well, it’s the risk parity. They have this special thing — 

Tim Ferriss: What does that mean?

Kevin Rose: Well, it’s a fancy thing that really expensive hedge funds use to get better returns and they offer it to their clients, which is normally not something you would get unless you had a lot of money to invest, and I love that they’re taking that and dropping that down and making it more accessible to most people. They do a lot of tax law harvesting and so does Betterment, which is great. These robo-advisors are so much smarter than your traditional, classic advisor you call on the phone that’s going to make changes for you once a year, twice a year. They’re optimizing using algorithms for taxes and a whole slew of different things. So forget the fact that we’re saying we both invested in Wealthfront. A robo-advisor in general is going to be a better performing advisor for you than the most individual advisors that are out there.

Tim Ferriss: Couple questions — Mulligan26: “Coping advice with single-room quarantine for two weeks.”

Kevin Rose: Single room? Oh, my God.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. I would say exercise, number one.

Kevin Rose: Wine. For sure, wine. That’s on the list.

Tim Ferriss: And that leads to Gramberry: “Tim, what’s your favorite body weight workout routine?” Gymnastic Body — or GymnasticBodies, that’s Coach Sommer, Christopher Sommer. S-O-M-M-E-R. His program is just fantastic. I highly recommend.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. Let’s talk about working out for a sec because I think that’s a good one. A lot of people are turning towards that. I will say two things. One, I’m not an investor in this company so I can say this freely. Fitbod, I’ve been using lately. If you have free weights at home or you’re just doing body weight workouts, they have a great app. I know it’s on IOS. I don’t know if it’s in Android. I think it is. It’s called Fit B-O-D. I’ve been using that for my free weights that I have here at the house. Peloton is my main form of cardiovascular exercise and they also have other classes, and they’re actually giving away 90 days with their app as well, which is a whole slew of — 

Tim Ferriss: Disclosure. Disclosure.

Kevin Rose: What? Well, I own Peloton stock and so do you. Do you?

Tim Ferriss: No, I don’t, but I’m looking at it very closely, but I do not yet own any Peloton.

Kevin Rose: They have actually sponsored your podcast, which you didn’t mention, which I’m a little offended by.

Tim Ferriss: That’s true. Peloton has sponsored my podcast. I have one upstairs. I do love me my Peloton.

Kevin Rose: I got you into that.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, you did. You did. You totally did. You and Mark Benioff got me into Peloton.

Kevin Rose: I love how the Peloton story about — Tim was like, “I’m not going to tell you my Peloton account,” because I wanted to race you, right? Because you can do these races and things.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Rose: And you’re like, “I’m not giving you my user name, blah, blah, blah,” and I emailed your assistant and I was like, “Hey, I just want to check on Tim’s user name for his Peloton account because I want to friend him up or whatever,” and she sent me your log in information with your password. Do you remember that? It was amazing.

Tim Ferriss: I do. I was very unhappy about that.

Kevin Rose: I bet. Remember I was like, “Tim, do not fire her. Do not be upset. She didn’t know,” but she sent me your entire Peloton login information.

Tim Ferriss: The fucking social engineering layup — casual walk down the court layup.

Kevin Rose: I love it.

Tim Ferriss: Good Lord. Let’s see. I’m looking at some of these questions.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, we’re looking at comments coming in.

Tim Ferriss: “Three fiction books you’d gift to each other.” That’s a good question.

Kevin Rose: Oh, geez. Fiction.

Tim Ferriss: Martin Sanjay. Three fiction books. Well, I know Kevin can’t spell, so I assume his reading level is probably six or seventh-grade. So based on that — 

Kevin Rose: First of all, I have a learning disability.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, stop.

Kevin Rose: I do. I do.

Tim Ferriss: Don’t even pull — what is your learning disability? Lazy spelling?

Kevin Rose: No, I’m just not a good speller. I’ve had issues. Sometimes I get the letters swapped and I love Grammarly. Grammarly’s a great product because it helps me out there. But I’m just saying, if you want to make fun of people with learning disabilities, I get it. No, real talk though, I always have had a little bit of an issue with that. It’s nothing I can memorize. It’s a brain thing. Something’s up there.

Tim Ferriss: I think you just type with your knuckles on your iPhone, but we can take this offline.

Kevin Rose: So Exhalation, by the way, Exhalation.

Tim Ferriss: 100 percent agreed.

Kevin Rose: Yes.

Tim Ferriss: Yes.

Kevin Rose: Fantastic series of short fiction books that are amazing. Highly recommend. So Good.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Exhalation is outrageously good. Another one, if you haven’t read it, I think everyone should read Dune by Frank Herbert. It’s just one of the best world-building fiction books of all time and I would say — 

Kevin Rose: It’s one of Darya’s, my wife’s, favorites.

Tim Ferriss: It’s so good. If you want to basically learn, let’s just say, 90 percent of all the lessons of leadership that you would get from reading a hundred of the best business books, nonfiction, on leadership, just read Dune. It’s so good. I love that book.

Kevin Rose: So I should get that on — I do a lot of Audible. Is it good on Audible?

Tim Ferriss: I’m sure it’s good. It’ll just take you like six years. It’s a long book but I love it.

Kevin Rose: I started Shogun on Audible. It’s like, “You will complete this in four and a half years.”

Tim Ferriss: Shogun’s great. Yeah, Shogun‘s also incredible.

Kevin Rose: Super long. So far so good, man. It’s amazing.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Shogun is also exceptional. What else would you recommend for fiction? I mean, I’ve been getting back into fiction. I think fiction is very medicinal. It has a therapeutic value during times like this.

Kevin Rose: It does.

Tim Ferriss: I really do. I’m reading a book called Little, Big, Little comma Big, right now, which is a — it’s a difficult read. The prose is so beautiful but it requires concentration. And if you can commit to 50 pages of it, you will probably buy in. But it’s an effort. It’s not as easy to read as say, Kurt Vonnegut. Cat’s Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut is just an incredible book. It’s easy to read. He’s hilarious. That’s an easy fiction book to read.

Kevin Rose: When do you dive into something like that? What, gives you the space, mentally? Because for me, if I’m doing some fiction, it’s very casual. I’ve had a glass of wine, I’m chilling. Darya doesn’t have anything else to do. I put in my AirPods and just zone out a little bit. It’s just fun, but I don’t want to be really thinking serious about something. When do you do that?

Tim Ferriss: You know recently, this is just in the last handful of days, I’ve been reading Little, Big whenever I feel anxious and as though I can’t stop, in the sense that if I have a to do list in front of me of things, I’ve somehow convinced myself are of great importance and I can’t stop and I need to rush to lunch or whatever it might be, that to me is a signal of scarcity and faulty thinking. So today for instance, I did this. I took two breaks and just read for 10 or 15 minutes as a way to calm my nerves. I’ve been using it that way.

This book Little, Big also is one of those books where — for instance, if you read The Baron in the Trees by Italo Calvino, which is an incredible book, The Baron in the Trees, there are only a handful of characters. So you could stop reading the book for a week, pick it back up, and you’re fine. Little, Big is so complex and there’s so many characters and there’s a really difficult family tree involved that you cannot put this book down for a week or you’ll be totally fucking lost. So you really have to read a little bit every day, which right now for me, I like. I like that there’s that incentive to read a little bit.

Kevin Rose: I typically hate those types of books. Like Game of Thrones, you’re like, “Okay, they’re introducing the 42nd character.” And you’re like, “Okay, who are you again?”

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, Dave — I can’t even say this. Dave Inksincy, something like that, recommended Zorba the Greek. I think Zorba the Greek is a fantastic book. That is actually a great book to read right now because it really contrasts this type A control freak with this freewheeling Epicurean Zorba. That is a great, great, great book I would suggest somebody. Just said, T.J. Rivera, “Dune is excellent on Audible,” which I would fucking love because it’s such a classic.

Kevin Rose: Oh, sweet.

Tim Ferriss: “Fear is the mind-killer.” Yes. The Bene Gesserit litany against fear.

Kevin Rose: I’ve got a question for you, Tim, that now that we’re a couple of glasses deep. Have you drank two glasses or no? I think you’re nursing that a little bit.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I’d say so. I’d say so. I’m about, yeah, three quarters of a bottle gone. So I’d say yes.

Kevin Rose: All right. So I’m curious, you mentioned a minute ago about when you need a break to go and read this book, like stress kind of thing. What’s bothering you? Because I think most people watching this will think you’ve got it all. Very successful, plenty of money, held up, plenty of bison. Really, what is it that’s — what’s getting under your skin? What’s bothering you these days?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Well that presupposes that I know what it is that’s bothering me, right?

Kevin Rose: Interesting.

Tim Ferriss: So I would say — 

Kevin Rose: Plenty of ayahuasca journeys to even things out a little bit.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, don’t do that. Don’t do that. We could talk about that if you’d like, but ayahuasca’s a big gun. I don’t recommend that for everyone. I actually recommend it for a very, very small percentage of people. But this period of time and this amount of uncertainty and the heightened fear that many people are feeling, I think brings to the forefront whatever it is that you haven’t dealt with, whatever it is you haven’t processed. And I spent much of my life numbing myself and turning off sensitivities. And the last few years of have entailed me turning back on many sensitivities. And I think fundamentally I’m a very sensitive person. And that doesn’t mean that I’m easily offended. I mean sensitive like an instrument, like a jewelry scale versus a body weight scale. And the — 

Kevin Rose: That’s interesting you mentioned that. I’ve noticed that about you dude, to be honest. I’ve known you for a while now, quite a while.

Tim Ferriss: You’ve known me for more than a decade.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. And I would say that when I first met you, you were very hardened, you know?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: And you’ve softened a lot and you’ve become more fragile, and I mean that in a way of — it’s actually a stronger position to be in, someone that can actually talk about what’s going on. And that wasn’t the case 10 years ago.

Tim Ferriss: Definitely was not the case 10 years ago. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that, man. I’m more — 

Kevin Rose: It’s a beautiful thing. I feel like I’ve kind of gone through a similar transformation. So it’s a beautiful thing.

Tim Ferriss: You definitely have. You definitely have. I’ve become more porous and permeable in so much as I’ve taken a lot of armor off. Armor is helpful in some ways in the sense that it keeps things out. It also keeps a lot trapped within. When you take the armor off, then you’re exposed to more. Perhaps 10 years ago, the weight of the world and all these deaths and all the unemployment wouldn’t have affected me very much. But it’s affected me a lot in the last few weeks. And so I think there’s a mourning period that I’m going through that has been very emotionally difficult. I’m not worried about me personally, right? Like financially, who the fuck cares?

And I say that in such a way very deliberately, because if I were to try to spin some type of woe is me story, it would be so fucking absurd that I would want you, Kevin, to slap me through the fucking Internet. Because you and I are both very, very fortunate. And we’ve also worked very hard and made some good decisions, but we’ve also had a lot of luck.

Kevin Rose: A ton of luck.

Tim Ferriss: A ton of luck. I am in a good position. I’m in a good position to help my family. But the stuff that is being brought up is largely things I can’t identify. These are the things from my past, things from my childhood probably, that are causing a level of anxiety in the face of uncertainty that has no basis in my current security. Does that make sense?

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: I’m not worried about my mortgage payment. I’m not worried about my food. But nonetheless, I have this high level of anxiety at times. The last few days had been quite good. I’ve actually felt pretty good in the last few days. But there are these moments when I’ll go to bed, I’m exhausted. At the end of every day, these days, I’m completely spent. And I’ll go to bed and I’ll lay in bed and all of a sudden I’m tired and wired and my mind is just producing a million thoughts a second that are all kind of anxiety-driven and I don’t have an explanation for it. I just don’t have a clean — 

Kevin Rose: And that itself has to drive more anxiety, right? Because you’re like, “Why can’t I figure out what it is that’s bothering me?” You know?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, yeah. Totally. So I — 

Kevin Rose: The thing — 

Tim Ferriss: No, please.

Kevin Rose: I was just going to say, since you’re sharing all this, the thing that worries me the most is one, I think it’s hard because I see my sister not having the work that she used to. And so that’s challenging. And I see her struggles with her — she’s a single mom and she is trying to raise some — a teenager now at home. And it’s challenging, being a teacher at home now. And my mom, who is 80 now. So those things are both weighing on me. But I would say honestly, the thing that scares me most is not me getting this or not be getting sick from it, because random people our age do die from this. Right?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.

Kevin Rose: It’s kind of weird like that. It’s like you think you’re fine and then you’re 40 — I’m 42 and I get hit or 43 and I get hit and I’m just dead, right? It is happening. So I’m not scared of dying at all, actually. I’m scared of not seeing and being able to talk to my girls when they’re going to need it most, through their formative years. And I think that is the thing that at my core, I just love my girls so much, I wouldn’t want to miss out on that. It’s not the death part, it’s that part. So it’s hard. It’s like we all have these things that are kind of hanging over our heads. It’s difficult.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. What have you found helpful?

Kevin Rose: Oh, gosh. Well, half a bottle of wine definitely helps. No, I would say helpful is — 

Tim Ferriss: Might have to make this a weekly thing. This could be our weekly therapy.

Kevin Rose: Honestly helpful, first and foremost, without a doubt is, and Mr. Rogers definitely said it best, I mentioned this in my newsletter, “Anything that is human is mentionable and anything that is mentionable is manageable.” And that is so true. If you can just talk about it with your spouse, with your friend, with anyone that you can try and create a social connection with and just be like, “This is what I’m going through,” just getting that off your chest just brings you down. It doesn’t get you back to where you want to be, perfect and happy and so stoked. But it does bring you down a couple notches and we just have to remember to do that every few days.

Tim Ferriss: Where did you get that quote? Was that from the doc?

Kevin Rose: It’s Mr. Rogers.

Tim Ferriss: No, I know it’s fucking Mr. Rogers, but was is it from the documentary about him? Or was it from the Tom Hanks version? Was it from something else?

Kevin Rose: It was from the Tom Hanks version, which I loved. And I went and then did the research to actually make sure it was from him and not just Hollywood. And it did come from him. The Tom Hanks movie was phenomenal. It’s available for rent now. You can get on Amazon. You can get it on iTunes. It’s a great movie. It’s not Tiger King or — Tiger King‘s pretty great. Hey, we should talk about this. Let’s move into what are we watching.

Tim Ferriss: Well, hold on. Before we get to Tiger King, so somebody suggested or they just mentioned How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. That’s a Dale Carnegie book that is fucking fantastic. I could not recommend it more. It has a very literal title as do many Dale Carnegie books. But How to Stop Worrying and Start Living is actually an exceptional, exceptional book. So I would suggest —

Kevin Rose: That’s awesome. We got to create a — well, we’re saving the video for this, so I guess we can do some show notes and stuff for all the stuff we talked about and post it online.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. So you were about to bring up what we’re watching.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. What are we watching lately? What are people watching these days in terms of favorite — Tiger King is my favorite thing right now. I’m on episode three.

Tim Ferriss: Yep. Yeah. So we’ll get into that real quick. A. Bucci says — 

Kevin Rose: People are saying — 

Tim Ferriss: “The fear of death or ego consciousness may be underlying the anxiety.” That’s not accurate. I don’t actually fear death, which may be from taking too many psychedelic compounds, but that’s not it. It’s something else. So TBD. But let’s see here.

Kevin Rose: People are saying Ozark by the way. Is that how you say it, Ozark? I have heard multiple people — it’s on season three now. If that’s right, people will correct me in the chat. Is it awesome? People are saying Ozark is awesome. Ozark is incredible.

Tim Ferriss: I’ve seen Ozark. Tiger King was good. I found the animal treatment depressing so I stopped after two episodes. I may continue, but that hasn’t been my go-to. But tell me about — 

Kevin Rose: Oh, you told me your go-to.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, but maybe I haven’t passed the point of no return with Tiger King. It is so strange as to be compelling. I get that. Yeah.

Kevin Rose: Darya won’t watch it with me. I’m watching it solo. I sit in bed with my iPad and I watch it. She will not watch it with me.

Tim Ferriss: She will not watch it with you. Why not?

Kevin Rose: She missed the first episode and then she’s just like, “I don’t want to watch something dumb.” And I’m like, “Eh, it’s dumb, but it’s kind of good.” You know Darya.

Tim Ferriss: The three-person marriage with that one young guy looking like he was fucking drugged out of his mind was amazing.

Kevin Rose: That was the best. It was so good. And then she definitely fed her husband to the tigers.

Tim Ferriss: I mean, that seems to be at least the way that — 

Kevin Rose: It’s going, yeah.

Tim Ferriss: — the producers wanted to show. Yeah, I mean that’s, that’s pretty crazy.

Kevin Rose: People are saying Formula 1. What is Formula 1?

Tim Ferriss: Formula 1.

Kevin Rose: I mean, I understand what it is in terms of — 

Tim Ferriss: Peter Attia’s favorite thing ever. Yeah. Racing. Race cars.

Kevin Rose: But is it a documentary that people are talking about?

Tim Ferriss: Oh, I don’t know. I assume that it’s some kind of Sky TV membership where you — 

Kevin Rose: Yes, [Formula 1] on Netflix.

Tim Ferriss: I don’t get it, guys. I’m sorry. I can appreciate how difficult it is. I can appreciate how the Mercedes team spends like 500 million a year. I appreciate all of that, but I don’t actually know how to discern the skill from watching these cars go around in circles.

Kevin Rose: But here’s the interesting thing. People are saying that this is so amazing. Everyone’s saying Formula 1, F1, F1. If it’s a documentary, why not watch an episode of it? I’m not into it either.

Tim Ferriss: Watch the documentary Senna, S-E-N-N-A. It’s fucking fantastic. It’s so good. Highly recommended.

Kevin Rose: I don’t know. People aren’t saying that. They’re saying Formula 1 in the chat.

Tim Ferriss: They don’t know what they’re talking about. If they actually follow F1 then they would agree with Senna. Peter Attia, So his favorite driver of all time is Ayrton Senna. And the documentary is just fantastic. I highly, highly recommend. What else are you watching besides Tiger King?

Kevin Rose: I don’t watch it. We don’t watch TV. We don’t watch — 

Tim Ferriss: Oh, stop it.

Kevin Rose: No, I’m being dead serious. If people really want to know the real me, I will tell you the truth. We don’t watch any TV. I love NBA. I will watch basketball. If my team is doing well, which is the Green Bay Packers, I will watch some football, even though I’m kind of conflicted there because of the head injury stuff. And I would say that I watch movies. I watched the new Star Wars. I thought it was great. I don’t know why people hated on it. I didn’t watch it in the theater. I just watched it when it came out. I rented it and thought it was amazing. We’re not huge TV people. You watching the chat?

Tim Ferriss: TV. Yes, I’m watching the chat. TV. What the fuck are you talking about, TV? It’s not like you have coaxial cables coming out into some gigantic —

Kevin Rose: No, I have YouTube TV. I use that as my main TV. I don’t have any more — 

Tim Ferriss: So you watch basketball and movies. That’s very ungratifying. What movies do you watch?

Kevin Rose: Dude, basketball is amazing, by the way. It’s one of the best sports out there. And movies, I would say I watched Contagion recently, which is — have you not seen Contagion?

Tim Ferriss: Uplifting. Yeah. Right.

Kevin Rose: Have you seen it?

Tim Ferriss: I have seen Contagion, yes.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. It’s really scary. No, but it’s like really crazy how it’s so — It’s kind of like what’s happening right now. It’s kind of nuts. But yeah, I mean if there’s an occasional movie that comes out that is awesome I’ll put it on.

Tim Ferriss: Okay. I’m watching The [Marvelous] Mrs. Maisel on weekdays.

Kevin Rose: Yes. You were trying to get me to watch that a couple of weeks ago.

Tim Ferriss: I think it’s hilarious. It’s great. And that is our weekday, meaning my girlfriend and I watch this on weekdays. We differentiate between weekdays and weekends.

Kevin Rose: You guys are so crazy. You have so many rules.

Tim Ferriss: It’s super helpful to — 

Kevin Rose: Tell about how you can’t talk about COVID for more than a certain number of hours.

Tim Ferriss: Well no, I think this is a good rule, actually. It’s been difficult to enforce but I try, and it’s been encouraged very strongly, to not talk about COVID after dinner hours. And we have dinner together almost every night and we light a candle. It’s very romantic. We open the sliding doors so we can hear some of the sounds from nature. Usually this is around say 6:30, 7:00. Tonight is an exception because I’m getting shit-faced with Kevin on the internet with our however many thousand closest friends. So that’s one guideline that we haven’t been following very closely. But actually it’s been better in the last few weeks. Because I was so early on this that I feel like I’ve distributed my anxiety — 

Kevin Rose: To her, yeah.

Tim Ferriss: — evenly over a long period of time, whereas — 

Kevin Rose: You were on the phone with me and you’re like, “I can’t talk about COVID. I’m past the hour. I’m past the time when I’m supposed to be talking about it.” I was like, “What are you talking about, dude?” You’re like, “I have rules. I have rules.”

Tim Ferriss: I think it’s very reasonable of my girlfriend to not want me to talk about fucking COVID past a certain hour. We often exercise in the morning. That’s one ritual. We also then have dinner tonight, or not tonight, almost every night together. Someone asked about best meal made during quarantine. We really like butternut, not butternut, I always say that, spaghetti squash, which can be cleaned. It can be disinfected very easily cause the rind is thick. Plus ground axis deer plus tomato sauce, garlic, oregano and a few other things. It’s fucking amazing.

Kevin Rose: It sounds great.

Tim Ferriss: Oh it’s so good. It’s just unbelievably good. So that’s one. Then the differentiation between weekdays and weekends I think is actually quite important. Because when every day can be Groundhog Day, it is psychologically a reprieve when you can delineate or provide breakpoints and sort of open chapter, close chapter on a weekly basis. So for us that means that on the weekends we watch movies or we watch something that is not our primary weekday series, which currently is The [Marvelous] Mrs. Maisel. So last weekend for instance, we binge watched some of season two of Westworld. And there are a number of documentaries that we may end up watching, but we’ll reserve The [Marvelous] Mrs. Maisel for weekdays. And it’s been helpful. It’s just helpful in a world of uncertainty to have rules and certainty related to certain things. And I’m sure that some folks will find that ridiculous. I’m sure some will find it very helpful. But we find it helpful.

Kevin Rose: I think what you said around it being Groundhog Day rings true for a lot of people in that because we are all quarantine it is like kind of the same thing over and over again. And one of the things that Darya, my wife, said was, “I want to — ” Last night was our seven-year wedding anniversary.

Tim Ferriss: Congrats, man.

Kevin Rose: Thank you. And she was like, “I want to dress up. I know we’re sitting across from each other at home, but I want to put on something really nice,” and I’m like, “Okay, same here. I’m going to put down a nice button-down shirt and do it proper, because — ” You kind of have to say, “Let’s not just fall into the same thing every single time,” and I think a schedule could help with things like that, to change it up a bit.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, so what’d you guys do? You took off your Underoos, your onesy, and you got dressed up.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: What did you guys do for your anniversary, which is fucking crazy by the way.

Kevin Rose: Seven years.

Tim Ferriss: I mean, it shows you how long we’ve known each other.

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: Because that doesn’t seem that long ago, and I remember being at the wedding. Seven years. That’s fucking — 

Kevin Rose: I know.

Tim Ferriss: — nuts.

Kevin Rose: I know.

Tim Ferriss: It’s crazy, man.

Kevin Rose: It’s crazy. It’s been an amazing adventure and I’ve learned a lot. But I would say that, yeah — I mean, we just basically had dinner, just kind of hung out at the house. I mean, there’s not a whole lot to do, you know? It’s like what are you going to do other than just having — we had a nice little meal and some dessert, which we don’t normally do, and a little too much wine.

Tim Ferriss: Don’t even start with the no dessert! I’ve seen you. When I stayed at your place with my girlfriend not too long ago, I remember we came back from dinner.

Kevin Rose: You were a guest.

Tim Ferriss: You were polishing off pints of ice cream.

Kevin Rose: Listen, you hit that ice cream too. We shared a pint, and you killed most of it, and that was good ice cream.

Tim Ferriss: It was good. I’m not going to accept that I killed most of it. I did take the beggar’s leftovers.

Kevin Rose: Well, we ate some edibles.

Tim Ferriss: That’s true. We did. We also ate some edibles.

Kevin Rose: And then we hit the ice cream hard.

Tim Ferriss: Which facilitates the ice cream. That was amazing ice cream, by the way.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. Yeah, it’s really good. They make good ice cream here in Portland, Oregon. People are saying “Truth comes out” in the comments. It’s legal, people. It’s legal.

Tim Ferriss: It’s legal. It’s legal.

Kevin Rose: Salt and Straw is — 

Tim Ferriss: What is Salt and Straw? Is that the ice cream company?

Kevin Rose: Yeah, it is not the one that we had, but it is one of the best in Portland, for sure.

Tim Ferriss: Has Tim’s position on weed changed?

Kevin Rose: Yeah, Ruby Jewel is the one we had.

Tim Ferriss: Noah Johnson. I don’t know what my position on weed was, so it’s hard for me to say if my position has changed.

Kevin Rose: I mean, you were anti-weed.

Tim Ferriss: I’m not anti-weed.

Kevin Rose: I’m just kidding.

Tim Ferriss: A lot of weed makes me fucking paranoid, so I don’t enjoy taking it. All right. The WHOOP band. No comments.

Kevin Rose: I’ve had issues with the WHOOP band, man. I had a WHOOP band.

Tim Ferriss: What the hell is that?

Kevin Rose: It’s like a Fitbit, fancy Fitbit, and I want to love it, but it’s just not accurate.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, I do remember this. Yeah, I do remember that.

Kevin Rose: What the WHOOP or the weed?

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the WHOOP.

Kevin Rose: Okay.

Tim Ferriss: No, no weed right now. I actually do use — “Weed will calm you, dude.” Thanks, Sifozar! I do use full spectrum CBD oil for sleep.

Kevin Rose: Where do you get that from?

Tim Ferriss: I don’t remember the brand, honestly.

Kevin Rose: Because I like the Pure Encapsulations full spectrum CBD, which is quite nice.

Tim Ferriss: That might be what I have, actually. Yeah.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. They make a good one. It’s like 10 or 20 milligrams per thing. It’s good for sleep.

Tim Ferriss: Tim, do you still ride your boosted board? Absolutely not, because I view it as suicidal for me at the moment. It’s just too fast. The speed limiter on it is exceptionally high, so I have very little confidence in my ability to do a stop, drop and roll if I wipe out at 20 miles an hour. “How did I lose 15 pounds?”

Kevin Rose: Yeah.

Tim Ferriss: Client Giant COM asks. By forgetting to eat, because I’m too fucking stressed out. I don’t recommend that as a diet approach, necessarily. “More sleep recommendations, having troubles, Groundhog Day.” This is from N Medler: “What recommendations might you have?”

Kevin Rose: Yeah, so sleep is definitely something I’ve spent a lot of time playing around with. Yeah. I think Max has a great point here, Max Goldberg. Matt Walker’s book Why We Sleep is a phenomenal resource for this stuff. That said, I’ve done low dose melatonin, and also magnesium is the one that you recommended to him at the beginning of the show.

Tim Ferriss: Magtein, T-E-I-N magnesium three in it.

Kevin Rose: Darya, my wife, she takes it every night. She takes the one that’s from a brand called LivOn, which is a liposomal form, and she swears by it. She loves that.

Tim Ferriss: All the roid monsters love LivOn.

Kevin Rose: Do they really? Why?

Tim Ferriss: Oh, yeah. For liver recovery after taking their alpha alkylated oral anabolics.

Kevin Rose: So, what do they take for liver recovery?

Tim Ferriss: I can’t remember the actual name of the product.

Kevin Rose: Because they do a vitamin C. They do a magnesium.

Tim Ferriss: They have a liver product that was what really kind of put them on the map.

Kevin Rose: Oh, really?

Tim Ferriss: Yep, absolutely. I also use their liposomal vitamin C.

Kevin Rose: I do too. That’s my favorite vitamin C.

Tim Ferriss: It tastes like horse semen, but you know?

Kevin Rose: I’ve never had horse semen, but I would imagine that it probably is similar. Probably similar.

Tim Ferriss: Similar. You have. Yeah, you have. No, you have had horse semen.

Kevin Rose: Have I? At your house?

Tim Ferriss: If you’ve had LivOn vitamin C —

Kevin Rose: Because I know I’ve tried some crazy stuff at your house and 4-Hour Chef had some — I think there was a recipe in there with horse semen that was — could be wrong.

Tim Ferriss: You know, of all my books. I think the most appropriate right now for quarantine is The 4-Hour Chef. I’m drunk enough to say this. It is the perfect book for quarantine. It really is.

Kevin Rose: Is it on Audible?

Tim Ferriss: No, because it would make no fucking sense.

Kevin Rose: I know, that would be amazing, though. Just hearing you be like, “One tablespoon baking soda. One tablespoon cinnamon.” I would love that.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, man. All right. What else do we have in the comments?

Kevin Rose: Let me take a look at our list of things that we wanted to cover, because I have to — 

Tim Ferriss: Oh, yeah. Dive in. I’ll look at the comments. You look at our list.

Kevin Rose: Apps we’ve been using. I think we’ve kind of covered that. Shows we’ve been talking about. I think we’ve covered everything we want to talk about. Is there anything else that people want us to talk about?

Tim Ferriss: I’m sure there’ll be no shortage here.

Kevin Rose: Maka for Men: “Any new drawings, Tim?” “Wim Hof.”

Tim Ferriss: Oh, Kilit Balance: “Will you guys do this again?” I don’t know. What do you think, Kevin?

Kevin Rose: I don’t know. It’s been fun. I would love to continue, dude.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, this is a good time.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, especially this kind of craziness continues, which I’m imagining it would. It’d be fun to do this every few weeks.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Kevin Rose: Make it monthly. Yeah, I think monthly would be fun. That’s a good idea. Cool. Should we do any parting notes or any things that we want to say on the way out? How was the stream quality? I’m curious for people. Was it good?

Great, great, good, awesome. I’m glad this worked out, because here’s the funny thing. I went onto Zoom and Tim is like, “How are we going to do this? Let’s figure it out.” And I went onto Zoom, and they had a — what’d they call? What did they call it? What is the account called? Oh, the webinar account. I was like, “Oh, we’ll do a webinar with Zoom. It supports up to 10,000 people.” And remember, I sent you the price? It’s 10 grand. It’s 10 grand for a Zoom webinar for 10,000 people. Yeah. It’s crazy.

Tim Ferriss: That’s a lot of monies.

Kevin Rose: So, thankfully, obviously we know Ben at Caffeine, the CEO, and he offered to do this.

Tim Ferriss: Ben’s great. Even though he almost killed me skiing.

Kevin Rose: Yeah, he almost killed you.

Tim Ferriss: That’s a side note. Yeah, side note.

Kevin Rose: All right.

Tim Ferriss: If you want to look up Tomahawk skiing accident, that’ll give you a nice image of what it looked like as I catapulted myself headfirst down many steep inclines with our dear friend Ben.

Kevin Rose: Yeah. He’s a big snowboarder. He wasn’t skiing, though, right? He was snowboarding.

Tim Ferriss: No. He’s much better at snowboarding than I am at skiing, which led to the disparity in competence when we went down cornices and I ended up Tomahawking head over heel over and over again. “Tim sounds like he has peanut butter stuck to the roof of his mouth.” Eric Kaplan. That’s because I’ve had a glass of wine.

Kevin Rose: More than a glass of wine. Let’s do some parting thoughts. What are your parting thoughts?

Tim Ferriss: Bottle of wine. Kevin, I feel like you have an urgency to your escape from this live broadcast.

Kevin Rose: I know that we have dinner at some point.

Tim Ferriss: “Tom’s drunk!”

Kevin Rose: Tom’s drunk! That was amazing. Whoever said “Tom’s drunk,” it’s got 13, 16 hearts now. 24, 27, 40. Wow. Amazing. That person’s hammed.

Tim Ferriss: Slayer soundtrack during isolation, Tim. Blood Red. Blood Red.

Kevin Rose: Oh, great workout track, too.

Tim Ferriss: Soundtrack for Slayer. So good.

Kevin Rose: Raining Blood. Yes.

Tim Ferriss: Raining Blood’s pretty intense. Yeah. That whole album was very intense. [crosstalk 01:18:46]

Kevin Rose: I have a Spotify workout that includes old Metallica and Slayer. It’s good stuff.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, man. “On fucking white wine. Who gets drunk on white wine?” Jeffrey.

Kevin Rose: It’s a good point.

Tim Ferriss: Heath: “Tim Ferriss. That’s who.” Because you know why? Because I can. That’s why. Random Drunk Show.

Kevin Rose: All right, so let’s do some parting thoughts here before we go.

Tim Ferriss: All right, go for it.

Kevin Rose: Do you want to start?

Tim Ferriss: No. Fuck no.

Kevin Rose: All right, I’ll start. I know it’s tough.

Tim Ferriss: Give us a Gettysburg Address. I want to hear something profound, Kevin.

Kevin Rose: Now, there’s nothing profound, other than one, I want to thank everybody for showing up tonight. It’s nice to have a little break from the chaos, obviously. And Tim, thank you for agreeing to do this, because just, it’s tough times. And I think that we’ve seen this, this type of thing impact everyone that we know. And it doesn’t matter how rich you are or how poor you are. It’s hitting everyone in a different way, and I just want to tell everyone out there that my thoughts are with all of you. This is going to be a challenging few years, so we will get through it together and hopefully, with a little bit of comedy and some random shows every now and then, and our podcasts that we do. And I just want to encourage everyone to be safe and to quarantine as much as possible. Stay home. I’m doing grocery runs once a week now. I have a little bit of stockpiled food, but I also go out to the grocery store and there’s no shame in wearing gloves or wearing a mask. It’s real. So, I just want to give much love to all the people watching this. You’re up.

Tim Ferriss: Thank you, Mr. Rose. I would say to add to that things are heavy. Things are heavy right now, and we will get through this, even if this is, as Bill Gates would perhaps propose, the once in a century pandemic. The human species, the hominids that we are, have existed for a very long time, and we have made it through many pandemics, many epidemics over time, and we will make it through this one. And it is your job in a way, now that natural selection and Darwinism are in full force once again, to not kill yourself and not kill other people. And I would suggest that you, as Kevin said, stay home as much as possible. Wear masks. The masks do help, despite what the World Health Organization might lead you to believe.

Kevin Rose: That’s going to change in a few days, dude.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, it’s fucking nonsense. Masks help. Period, end of story.

Kevin Rose: Especially if you’re asymptomatic. Sorry to interrupt, but most people don’t know they have it.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, and so one way to think about this is not just how do you protect yourself, but how would you act if you had COVID-19? If you were positive, how would you act so you would not contaminate anyone else? And there are a lot of ways to work around that. If you need to do grocery runs, you could consider using a task rabbit, for instance, who’s already going to be exposing themselves. How can you piggyback on other activities? Et cetera and so on.

But I would say it’s very helpful at times like this when we’re so mired in the weeds and so overwhelmed and so perhaps — stressed in the face of uncertainty, to zoom out. And if you zoom out, you could look at a book like, I believe it is The Lessons of History by William and Ariel Durant. And when you read a book like that, which effectively takes 10,000 pages of documentation — 

Kevin Rose: Jesus, who’s reading that?

Tim Ferriss: — that is already a synopsis, and then concentrates it down to about 120 pages.

Kevin Rose: Oh, that’s not bad.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Then you realize how common what we’re going through is, when placed in the context of a broader human history. And for that reason, there is reason to be careful. There’s reason to be cautious and strategic, but humans will exist after this. I suspect it will be sooner than people expect in terms of economic recovery and as it stands right now, I think the most important thing is to take this seriously now, so that it doesn’t extend over 18 to 24 months.

The more seriously you take it now, the less seriously you can take it 12 months from now. And that, I think, is worth highlighting. So, that’s what I’d say. I also extend my heart and empathy to all those who are suffering right now with job loss, with economic uncertainty and so on. It’s a fucking hard time and hopefully everyone can do a little bit to help the handful of people all around them. You don’t need to save the world, but if there’s a barber or a dog walker or a coffee shop or someone near you who you can reach out to just to simply ask, “What can I do to help? Is there anything I can do to help?” That’s a major public service and karmically, you will be adding a lot to your bank account for the final tally. So, that’s what I would say.

Kevin Rose: Sometimes help is just having a conversation with someone, just giving them to a chance to vent and get things off their chest.

Tim Ferriss: 100 percent.

Kevin Rose: The one thing I will say that when you were talking, Tim, they were coming up in the comments is that people were saying masks are not available. And I will say that I did see a very interesting — it wasn’t an article. I actually heard it on the radio when I was driving in the car. It was talking about alternatives to the masks that people are using. And they have found that sewing fabric, like multilayered fabric, like cotton masks and even scarves and other things, anything you can do to cover your mouth and nose is effective. Is it going to be clinical grade? Like maybe not. But there’s no shame in going to the grocery store with a scarf over your mouth. These are difficult times and we got to just make do with what we have.

So, I’m doing the same thing. It’s tough, but until those become available to the general public, it’s like we got to do the best we can.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Something is better than nothing.

Kevin Rose: 100 percent.

Tim Ferriss: At this point. Number one, I would say do what you can. Be responsible. Think about not just your safety, but the safety of those in your community, and also try to be easy on yourself. Right? Nobody’s fucking acing this right now.

Kevin Rose: Nobody is. We’re all fucking scared.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Nobody’s acing this.

Kevin Rose: I’ve got an 80-year-old mom that I’m freaking out about every single day, because she goes out and checks the mail by herself and touches her mail and I’m like, “Maybe you shouldn’t be doing that.” There’s like little tiny holes in all of this stuff, and my mom’s got really, really, really bad asthma and so it’s like a done deal. She gets this and it’s game over. We all are struggling here in some capacity, and I know some more so than others. So, if you have this or you know someone that has it, we’re rooting for you. We love you. All we can do is give love and support to those around us.

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, here here, man. That’s all I have to say.

Kevin Rose: All right. Cheers brother. So good — I’m out of wine. I can pour it a tiny bit more. Are you completely out?

Tim Ferriss: I’m out of booze.

Kevin Rose: Did you finish your bottle?

Tim Ferriss: My bottle’s empty.

Kevin Rose: Holy shit. You did that all yourself?

Tim Ferriss: I did.

Kevin Rose: I’m proud of you, Tim Tim. Tom, Tim Tom.

Tim Ferriss: Thanks, Kev Kev.

Kevin Rose: Cheers. People are saying Tom is lit right now.

Tim Ferriss: Oh, Tom is lit. No doubt.

Kevin Rose: Cheers everybody. We love you all.

Tim Ferriss: Cheers everybody.

Kevin Rose: Seriously. Stay safe out there. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope this gave you some laughs and some good times and we’ll talk soon. All right, let’s hit stop and stop.

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 500 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.

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