Cal Fussman Corners Tim Ferriss (#324)

“All the pieces are coming together here!” — Cal Fussman

I’ve interviewed legendary storyteller Cal Fussman (@calfussman) on this show before (here and here), but this time the roles are reversed, and he interviews me!

If you are not yet familiar with Cal, he is a New York Times bestselling author and a writer-at-large for Esquire magazine, where he is best known for being a primary writer of the “What I Learned” feature. And this interview originally aired on Cal’s podcast, “Big Questions with Cal Fussman.”

Cal has transformed oral history into an art form, conducting probing interviews with the icons who’ve shaped the last 50 years of world history: Mikhail Gorbachev, Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Jack Welch, Robert DeNiro, Clint Eastwood, Bruce Springsteen, Dr. Dre, Quincy Jones, Woody Allen, Barbara Walters, Pelé, Yao Ming, Serena Williams, John Wooden, Muhammad Ali, and countless others.

Enjoy!

You can find the transcript of this episode here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

• Listen to it on Apple Podcasts.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

Want to hear another episode with someone who’s collected a lifetime of great stories? — Listen to my interview with Shep Gordon, the man behind some of the biggest names you’ve ever heard, including Alice Cooper, Wolfgang Puck, Anne Murray, and Teddy Pendergrass. (Stream below or right-click here to download):

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This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter, which every Friday features five bullet points of cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and — of course — all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world. 

It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Cal Fussman:

Website | Podcast | Twitter | Kevin “The Manager”

• Big Questions with Cal Fussman
• The Interview Master: Cal Fussman and the Power of Listening, The Tim Ferriss Show
• Cal Fussman: The Master Storyteller Returns, The Tim Ferriss Show
• What I’ve Learned: Ron Howard & Brian Grazer by Cal Fussman, Esquire
• Are Saunas the Next Big Performance-Enhancing “Drug?” (a guest post on my blog by Rhonda Patrick prefaced by pictures of me being tortured by mad scientists at Stanford)
• Cooling Glove Developed by Stanford Researchers Helps Athletes and Patients by Nathan Collins
• Someone Added a Smiths Song to a Bunch of People Screwing Up in Infomercials, Creating the Best Music Video of the Year by Bob Powers, Someecards
• Suzanne Somers: Thighmaster Commercial (1991)
• Snowflake Ice Cream Shoppe
• Black Belt Magazine
• The Affair
• The Lobster Roll
• The Maidstone Hotel
• What I Think: John McPhee by Jamie Saxon, Princeton University
• A Sense of Where You Are: Bill Bradley at Princeton by John McPhee
• Levels of the Game by John McPhee
• Oranges by John McPhee
• Annals of the Former World by John McPhee
• The Survival of the Bark Canoe by John McPhee
• Draft No. 4: On the Writing Process by John McPhee
• Who is Keyser Soze? The Usual Suspects
• Colour Symbolism: Red in The Sixth Sense by Cat Barnard, Screen Muse
• The Meiji Restoration and Modernization, Asia for Educators, Columbia University
• The Princeton Tiger
• The Eating Clubs of Princeton University
• High-Tech Entrepreneurship, Princeton University
• Understanding Dysgraphia, International Dyslexia Association
• Scientific Speed Reading: How to Read 300% Faster in 20 Minutes, Tim Ferriss Blog
• Pixar Animation Studios
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• BlueMountain.com
• Fireside Chat with Tim Ferriss and Professor Ed Zschau
• TrueSAN Networks
• Fairtex Muay Thai Fitness
• Welcome to Recoleta & Barrio Norte (Buenos Aires), Lonely Planet
• Silicon Valley Association of Startup Entrepreneurs
• Chicken Soup for the Soul by Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and Amy Newmark
• Tribe of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Tim Ferriss

SHOW NOTES

• How does Cal approach an interview with someone he knows pretty well — like me, for instance? [09:44]
• A story about Brian Grazer and Ron Howard and how their teamwork reminds Cal of me. [11:09]
• Is my origin story anything like “Iceman” Wim Hof’s? [12:58]
• Childhood wrestling and adaptation to thermoregulation woes that led to lifelong self-experimentation. [14:58]
• Why growing up when I did probably influenced my interest in nutrition. [20:53]
• Contrasting the characteristics of the people who raised me and piecing together what I’ve inherited from them. [22:25]
• How does my interest in persuasion and salesmanship tie in with my night owl tendencies? [24:43]
• Even if Cal doesn’t think I have the mindset of an artist, I did grow up with serious artistic aspirations. [28:43]
• What the “get the crowd first, then sell the product” approach gets you. [30:48]
• Contrary to what seems to be popular opinion, I don’t consider myself a risk-taker. [31:47]
• How did the way I think about money and efficiency get me fired from one of my first jobs in high school? [32:15]
• Other high school jobs that were better suited to my efficiency-centered work ethic. [35:15]
• On taking a class with John McPhee at Princeton, a writer who can mesmerize readers with entire books about seemingly mundane subjects like oranges, rocks, tennis, and the time-honored tradition of the bark canoe. [38:36]
• How my love for minimalism and elegance relates to my love for Japan. [46:38]
• What I learned from John McPhee’s class that translated into better grades in all my other classes. [47:46]
• At what point did the ability to control my own journey come into play? [48:10]
• My brief career as a safeguard (bouncer) at Princeton. [51:34]
• High-tech entrepreneurship field studies on a Radio Shack budget. [59:38]
• Learning to speed read through the coursework at Princeton — while coping with dysgraphia. [1:01:34]
• What I learned by collecting and analyzing the advertising that caught my eye. [1:05:12]
• My first taste of failure as an entrepreneur. [1:06:03]
• In marketing, what is a dry test? [1:07:02]
• My first taste of success as an entrepreneur. [1:07:52]
• My first investment. [1:13:56]
• When did the concept for The 4-Hour Workweek really start to formulate? [1:16:07]
• Negotiating with Ed Zschau for a seat (or spot on the floor) in his class after I missed the registration deadline. [1:17:48]
• Hustling for a job after college. [1:20:57]
• Laying the groundwork for my next business venture. [1:27:26]
• When success became a series of liabilities and the company I ran started running me. [1:31:41]
• How a twice-a-year lecture for Ed Zschau and some time off the grid helped me begin to put what would become 4-Hour Workweek principles in effect. [1:32:14]
• The exact moment when business scaling became lifestyle design. [1:33:57]
• How insomnia, lack of a television set, and a snarky Princeton student’s feedback led to me writing my first book (in spite of an earlier vow to never write again). [1:34:51]
• If you’re going to bother volunteering, make a point of being a good (and memorable) volunteer. [1:36:32]
• How Chicken Soup for the Soul co-author Jack Canfield helped me begin the process of writing a book. [1:37:34]
• The real reason I was annoyed at The 4-Hour Workweek being rejected over 25 times. [1:39:50]
• What sealed the deal at my final pitch. [1:42:21]
• How I upheld my part of the bargain and finalized the winning book title. [1:45:17]
• Putting a cap on Chapter One: Tim Ferriss — The Early Years. [1:49:41]
• Asking better questions and what you can expect if you haven’t had a chance to read Tribe of Mentors yet. [1:49:58]

PEOPLE MENTIONED

• George Clooney
• Mikhail Gorbachev
• Ronald Reagan
• Jamie Foxx
• Arnold Schwarzenegger
• Josh Waitzkin
• Hunter S. Thompson
• Kobe Bryant
• Daymond John
• Seth Godin
• Simone Biles
• Brian Grazer
• Ron Howard
• Wim Hof
• Jean-Claude Van Damme
• Sylvester Stallone
• Ron Popeil
• Tony Robbins
• Jim Lee
• Todd McFarlane
• Erik Larsen
• Simon Bisley
• John McPhee
• Bill Bradley
• David Remnick
• Keyser Soze
• Kobayashi
• Ed Zschau
• Charles Darwin
• Thomas Isakovich
• Marc Birnkrant
• Jack Canfield
• Steve Hanselman
• Heather Jackson
• Steve Ross
• Maria Sharapova
• Kelly Slater
• Dan Gable
• Steven Pinker

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.