Dr. Gabor Maté — New Paradigms, Ayahuasca, and Redefining Addiction (#298)

I’ve been following Gabor Maté’s works for a long time and so excited you had him on! I didn’t even get a chance to listen yet but had to say thanks 🙏

I got excited when I saw Gabor’s name, but this interview was even better than I expected! I’ve come to these realisations my self over the last few years (through the likes of Gabor’s books) and it’s really changed how I see myself and all the relationships in my life.

It’s been so difficult to articulate this perspective, but this episode has given me a way to explain to others the power of understanding how our childhood experiences influence our lives, and what we can do to improve. Thanks for the amazing interview – I really appreciate when you cover these topics, as I think they underlie much of what’s truly important to us.

Thank you, Tim, for sharing your own growth journey with the world. Certain parts of the conversation had the potential of going even deeper, but I understand it must be very uncomfortable to reveal innermost thoughts & emotions when the camera is rolling, so you quickly switched topics.

Having lived in both China & Japan, the idea that western medicine only treats the symptoms（治表不治根）has been apparent. We are going through a new era of obsession for things to be ‘scientifically proven’ and forgetting ancient wisdom. It’s great to see an increased appreciation of Buddhism in the west.

In some ways, I’m jealous that the Jews can openly talk about the trauma they’ve experienced. Yet, as a Chinese, the multi-generational trauma of cultural revolution is still very much a taboo to this day. I know very well my personal childhood trauma is a product of multi-generational experience during the wartime, and particularly the cultural revolution. The lack of trust that you see in today’s China is an unhealed wound of the nation, but the media is too obsessed with the very flawed economic concept of GDP to really bother making China’s human rights issues a focal point of discussion.

In search of an ideal society, I’ve lived in 5 countries and eventually come to realize that there is no one perfect culture. All human experiences are on a spectrum of grey, and the nuance of life is also where the beauty lies. Growing up playing Go gave me the visual perception that the world is black & white, and it took me a lot of deep inner work to find the emotional peace I currently enjoy. Buddhism & Daoism combined provides a pretty good compass for understanding our human experience.

Again, thank you, Tim. You’ve inspired me to start sharing my own stories & experiences. Look forward to meeting you in person one day in the near future!

p.s. I think you’ll enjoy Dr Milton H. Erickson’s work. Or are you already familiar with his work? I believe he inspired your personal guru, Tony Robbins. ‘Uncommon Therapy’ is a great book to start with!

I don’t typically listen to your podcasts though I read your first two books and am a subscriber to 5 bullet Fridays. I do find that most of your podcasts revolve around how to be a smarter, faster, smarter, richer version of who we are – all relevant topics in today’s society. But when the word “compassion” popped up in your podcast alert, I immediately tuned it.

Mate was brilliant guest speaker, who I believe took you out of your comfort zone a few moments during the talk. I think compassion and non secular Buddhism are topics that need so much more presence and exploration in the main stream. Thank you for bringing it to the fore.

I listen to podcasts on the train on the way to work, usually as background to drown out the mad commuting scene. This podcast with Dr. Gabor Mate was so interesting and quickly became foreground as it drowned everything else out. The stuff about childhood trauma (even when you know you were loved) and how it can show up in your adult life was revelatory. It has put me on a path to explore this further, including his self care suggestions. Thank you Tim for this wonderful podcast and putting yourself out there. Your honesty was moving, insightful, and helpful.

I have listened to,and read, almost everything you have published Tim. I have never felt the urge to comment. This episode is different. To me, this is the most true, most authentic and most meaningful thing I have ever heard from you, or from anyone else on the Internet. Thank you.

This interview was great. Thank you Tim for digging in and asking in depth questions. Personally, the information presented is incredibly timely. Thank you.

Great podcast! I live in Vancouver and have seen him speak here before. I love the connection he makes between childhood trauma and illness, but I would still like to hear more about the ways in which he heals these traumas. I always feel he just touches on them but doesn’t go deep into them. Even with ayahuasca saying he only does it a couple weeks a year it’s not his main focus, even though it’s incredibly healing. He mentioned several methods like EMDR but I sill feel wanting more. Like where does one turn if they are depressed, anxious or ill in general. I wonder if he is familiar with Trauma Release Therapy (TRE). A process developed by David Berceli. He has a book called The Revolutionary Trauma Release Process that explains the process of releasing trauma from the body by different body movements and shaking etc. Overall I love his work and loved listening. Hope he didn’t make you too uncomfortable putting you on the spot there! Thanks Tim!

Wow, that is a top 10 podcast episode for me. Do you think The Drama of the Gifted Child: The Search for the True Self would become an audiobook?

Dear Tim,

I think this is the only way to get in contact with you. I have just finished listening to your conversation with Gabor – first of all thank you very much for it – so much wonderful perspective and experience. Many that echo my own, but the reason that I am writing and feel compelled to do so before I rush off to work is that they also resonate with paradigms of a Man who has been the most significant teacher in my life since 2003 – Donny Epstein.

The Skin Deep – Topaz – has recently released a 13 minute documentary called ‘Presence’ which shows Donny working at a Transformational Gate program. This will give you an introduction to Donny and how he works with people. I think you will be very interested in his approach and also how people respond.

You mentioned you have recently been to Date with Destiny and I know that Tony regularly talks about the work that Donny does. [Moderator: Donny Epstein program date and location removed.]

Anyway he has lots of info out there you can check out and see what you think. He runs most of his programs in the states (his home is in Boulder CO) and also in Europe, and he comes out to Australia twice a year.

With Thanks again,

Frankie

Thank you for this profound and personal interview with Dr. Gabor Mate. You asked him about styles or systems of yoga to assist with this type of work and I wanted to suggest to you Kundalini Yoga. I am by no means a devoted practitioner, however at different times in my life I have found it very helpful for moving through trauma in a guided, traditional and systematic method. The combination of breath work, chanting and physical pistures can be profoundly moving. Here in Austin, there is very engaged community— you may want to check it out. Welcome to Texas!

When are you going to interview Dr. Gabor Mate again? I am READY for the next one already. Super show. This guy is good. Thanks again Tim.

Amazing podcast 🙏 thank you so much Tim and Gabor!

This is an absolutely incredible podcast. Potentially one of the most important ones you have ever done as childhood trauma is so widespread.

Some other forms of treatment for childhood trauma:

Neurofeedback see the book – Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma: Calming the Fear-Driven Brain by Sebern Fisher.

(This was actually mentioned during the Josh Waitzkin and Adam Robinson Learning interview from London, England)

TRE – Trauma Release Exercises by David Berceli is way of getting into the body and releasing the trauma held in the body. You can go to group classes in your area or use the book and DVD as Tim’s assistant did in his blog post about anxiety. https://traumaprevention.com/what-is-tre/

In the meantime, I am going through the podcast again to learn and use what I have learnt.

I was never sure about EFT but now that Dr. Maté has confirmed this is effective, I would like to look into this

I can’t say it any better than many of the comments, but this episode has struck a chord with many people. Dr. Mate’s clear elucidation of how childhood psychological defense against trauma and abandonment is the source of many (all?) or our adult neuroses needs to catch fire. I’ve experienced this first-hand.

I’m 41 and have had social anxiety, public speaking paralysis, IBS, and gut pain my whole life. The combo of 1) somatic experiencing, and 2) making the thearapeutic connection of my current anxiety and body pain to defense mechanisms I developed as a child in a troubled home has turned my life around. My quality of life was a 1-2 my entire adult life. 20 months ago engage a therapist versed in these topics. Now quality of life is a 9-10.

Fascinating how these super smart, super wise people, they all converge at one point – benevolence,wisdom, Yoga, meditation, transcendental experiences. Oh by the way, Dr. Maté mentions Sadguru – how cool would it be to interview an even more prominent sage, one of the greatest humanitarians of our time – Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? His teachings saved me too…. and have helped millions of people live a happier, less stressful life.

Dear Tim and Dr. Gabor Maté,

Like you, Tim, I have only recently, in my late 30’s, taken a deep dive inward through meditation and yoga, to peel back layers covering childhood trauma (sudden death of my dad at age 10 and its sequelae) and dysfunctional attachment that has impacted my relationships in adulthood. I was enthralled with your conversation and have practiced many of the healing trauma techniques mentioned- EMDR, somatic therapy (Peter Levine), tapping- and came one step from delving into the plant-based techniques, when I started surfing and meditating, which have, in concert, brought me to a place of wide open love and movement through healing. You asked Dr. GM to recommend a type of yoga, and I would humbly give you my recommendation for Breath-Based Vinyasa- hot yoga flow with synchronized breath and movement- it is basically a hack to flow state and an hour of moving meditation. I am happy to share more about how this has anecdotal (at least) healing properties and the rationale behind it, including vagus nerve stimulation with this type of breathing, moving meditation Thank you for this impactful interview and for sharing so much of your depth with your listeners. I have literally listened to every one of your podcasts, am consuming your Tribe of Mentors book, and share your content with people who are open to being moved and impacted. Thank you. Cheers to being all in and for being love. Jessica Ackerman

I just listened to this amazing and inspiring interview. I am a huge fan of Gabor Maté and the powerful Work he is doing in the world. I wish I write down all the quotes he shared during this podcast but was too engrossed in the interview that I forgot. Did anyone else catch them?

Dude… I haven’t finished listening to your interview with Mr. Mate yet; nor have I, I think ever, commented on a post, but I’m compelled. It’s blowing my mind. He is a “people whisperer”. I’ve got some new self exploration to do… and I’m only halfway through the podcast.

I gotta thank you Tim for your role in bringing this stuff to us. You’ve demonstrated a pretty good track record and I’ll be tuning in to most anything you put out.

Thank you for posting. Such an informative Article.

Hey Tim,

Not sure where to post this, but how is 70% Tanzania Kilombero Chocolate is part of your cheat meal? I would feel 70% is still healthy, and if you are cheating doing cheat meal (by no means this means anything else) you should go all the way, like regular chocolate, ice cream, I usually eat 85% cocoa on my healthy days if I really crave for chocolate.

Hi Tim,

just read your today’s Five bullet Friday newsletter where you said that among places you would like to visit is Estonia. Here’s a possibly good excuse to actually come here – the first international Psycherence (https://www.psycherence.org) takes please here in September 2018. Considering the topics you’ve covered could be of interest and a way to combine business with pleasure.

Great podcast. Thank you so much.

Going to listen to this again on the weekend. This is like being in therapy! There is simply too much here to absorb.

Sorry for this unrelated question. Some time ago you mentioned some kind of surgery you had made in the nasal area, and you ended the line: No more Mr mouthbreather, or something like that. Could you kindly tell me what kind of surgery it was, because I think I might need something like it, and the doctors here in Sweden say that there is no such surgery. Sorry about your friend, and I hope your sinus infection gets better soon.

I’d pay for it, but it’s pretty easy to fast forward through the ads. The problem is that I want to advertise and have submitted a request but no one wants to take my 100K or so. Good problem to have but it takes a lot of time to vet good sponsors and make sure you aren’t promoting crap. We struggle with the same thing. I appreciate all the content and while I’d like to sponsor, even though I’ll get fast forwarded, I understand you guys are really busy. thanks again!

diego from italy. when you talked about attachment, i had a strange feeling. i do not remember much of my childhood other than the fact that my mother was , then, an alcoholic and my father was not a strong manly guide for me. but…. when you talked about attachment my belly went crazy with shivering like i know there was something back then, but don’t know exactly what. but this is a gut feeling and must be true. thanks for having brought dr. maté on

Hi there, this is such an important topic, thank you. I would really love if you would do an episode on EFT (tapping) which Dr. Mate mentioned. I have struggled with food addiction for 20 years (otherwise known as binge eating or being overweight) and tapping is what is finally leading me out of this personal hell. If you can get to the point with your addictions where you can actually feel yourself having the body sensation right before you do the addictive behavior, you can use tapping in the moment to feel into the feeling you are trying to cover up and then not do the addictive behavior. Nick and Jessica Ortner offer really good programmes and books and free online stuff. Tim, I think your readers would greatly benefit from this, it has been a bit maligned by the mainstream but is so effective and I was so happy to hear it mentioned on this episode. I also think something like this which is practically applicable, I unlike Ayahuasca, which opens doors but is not practical in the moment, would be really helpful for people. I’ve had psychedelic experiences that were really dope (pun intended) in the moment and eye but we need ways to practice on a daily basis, which is why tapping is so amazing. It’s free, easy, and so simple to learn. Cheers!

Very informative podcast. Thank you.

It was on my playlist today, just as I found myself feeling angry with some random people out in the town for being hapless, confused and lacking in perfection. Universe indeed provides generously.

I found the information about the sensitive child very interesting. This is information that is barely touch upon in my training in Health Psychology.

This is one your best ever Tim! Thanks so much for bring Dr. Mate to us! I love how he connected common problems like ADHD and addiction to early trauma. I feel like going back and exploring past pain is important work but, it takes a lot of time and can be expensive to get trained help. In the end, the goal is to enable connection going forward. I’ve found that the assessment developed by Dave Blanchard [Moderator: domain name removed.] helps people move forward with connection without the requirement of resolving past issues first. Not that I’m suggesting that be avoided… only that sometimes beginning to connect with others with eyes open to the walls preventing further connection can facilitate the resolution of the past issues.

Tim, thank you!

I am long term mental health counselor and I can’t thank you enough for this interview and all you do. Very often I put podcast links on patient discharge instructions and this one will be given to many, many folks who otherwise wouldn’t have heard of Gabor or you.

In addition to Alice Miller and The Drama of Gifted Child(one of the all time misleading translations) I would like to turn you on to another author/book who would be my “most gifted”: Karen Horney: “Our Inner Conflicts”. Read it if you dare!

again, Thanks!

Hey loved your recent rec. on DRAFT #4.Nearly finished it this weekend. Great insights …so glad I had read many of his works in past year. Please note that Tribes on Mentors took the back seat to MCPHEE as a result. Am 1/2 thru that too. also Mate podcast over the top,,especially when he started to get you “fix” yo’sef. THX!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! What an amazing Podcast. I got so much out of this Podcast. I had not heard of Dr Gabor Mate before this podcast but what an amazing, insightful man and I WILL be reading some of his books. The universe also delivered this to me at exactly the right time, so thank you Tim for facilitating that! I can understand why you were looking forward to doing this podcast yourself.

This podcast was so timely! Thank you so much for going in depth about integration. After listening to this I convinced my group to start a text chat and meet in person once a month. Such a critical component.

Please male a part 2 with dr Mate, there are so many paths left to explore.

Also, you mentioned you are in a different place, a better one than 1 year ago. Would you share the hows, the tools. Thank you for the incredibly helpful work you put out.

Just finished listening to this one today and it offers a complete paradigm shift for me. I’ll definitely be revisiting it as I address some matters in my life. Thanks for your work.

Tim I would pay $1-3 per episode. I know that’s not a ton of money, but I couldn’t pay more because I listen to them all. Conversely, I would pay a monthly amount ($5/month) or a yearly amount ($50/year) to get all of your content. How you considered a model like that?

Dear Tim, I just finished listening to this podcast four times in a row. I have never been so shaken up! Dr. Gabor Maté explained EVERYTHING for me! I’m in the best mental place I have ever been. Thank you for having this conversation Tim! And thank you both for your contribution in changing people’s lives.

Tim, I think Gabor dehumanizes and stigmatizes when says that people who enjoy taking drugs are “addicts” and loose control of themselves. To be human is to be responsible. The war on drugs stigmatizes certain drugs sold on the street and glorifies others handed out by doctors. Check out Addiction is a Choice by Jeff Schaler. [Moderator: link removed.]

Wonderful podcast. Tim, I was referred to you by Sam Harris, where I am a faithful listener, and I was so pleasantly surprised and grateful to hear this interview. I have Dr. Mate’s book on my desk, and work in the field of addiction, so it was the perfect podcast for me to be introduced to your work.

I was impressed with your questions and knowledge, but was equally, if not more impressed with your willingness to be vulnerable – sharing with us a piece of your own journey. The fact is, as was mentioned several times, most of us have been traumatized in some way, if even by “loving parents,” and there are practical ways to heal those traumas, and lead more joyous and meaningful lives. And in that way, this podcast can benefit us all. Again, much thanks!

Your interview with Dr. Mate was fabulously informative. Dr. Mate addresses the core cause of addictions/compulsions. I have spent hundreds of hours listening to self help gurus with much learned but not much change.. Dr. Mate’s personal insights and proffesional finding are the answer for those who really want to heal and overcome obstacles. Thank you Tim for including your personal experience into the interview.

Did anyone catch what Gabor said at 1:56:16 in talking about processes and techniques for post-retreat/psychedelic therapy like Vipassana he also said something called “land-locked forearm” – Never heard of this and googling doesn’t seem to lead me to any sort of technique.. Perhaps I’m not hearing it correctly.

@tim – fantastic podcast, I love Gabor Mate and have been following his work since I first heard him on Rich Roll’s podcast a year or two ago. Many thanks!

Thank you for this! Stumbled on Gabor a few years ago and was profoundly changed by his work – the world needs more of this man.

Was a little painful to hear you struggle through the ‘what did you feel when…’ exercise – wholly because I have been there (and mostly still am).

SUGGESTION: there’s a practice called Circling. It feels like a cult and is awkward AF, but forces you (kindly, gently) out of your own head like nothing else I’ve experienced. Google for a community near you – they’re out there.

PS: as an INTJ, I especially recommend this for anyone who falls into the xxTJ bucket in Myers–Briggs system. If I had to guess, Tim qualifies.

Tim,

This episode is for me, life-altering. I am not 100% certain where to begin other than Thank You! Thank you for all you give on your podcast and more.

I like many have “struggled” with addictions, not drug or alcohol but most of my family has. I can not believe I have never seen or heard Dr. Gabor Mate and will be listening, taking notes, and researching more.

This was a powerful podcast and I applaud you for being open and for showing others how to heal. I will be sharing this with others and I can only hope they will listen.

Thank you again and again – sincerely from the bottom of my heart.