The Scariest Navy SEAL Imaginable…And What He Taught Me (#107)

What a guy. Main take away I took from this was having a crystal clear reason for why you do what you do.

Jocko has such a clear sense of purpose which was something Stan McCrystal mentioned in his interview also. When Jocko said that he thinks about that guy in a cave rocking back and forth, with a grenade in one hand and a gun in the other – that they are going to meet someday and that is what gets him out of bed, it created such a visceral reaction in me. The image was so clear and so filled with emotion that it motivated me to workout harder (I was listening to the episode in the gym) even though I am not in the military. I imagined that I would need to fight the guy in the cave someday and it pushed me – it must be 1000X that for Jocko. Made me realize that I need to get a crystal clear motivation and reason for why I am doing what I am doing. I have usually tried to use positive reinforcement for that but it seems like the negative works much better for me. I was hesitant to have something negative motivate cause I feared that it would affect me in the wrong way but fuck it, if it works, it works, and let’s give it a try.

Also, appreciate how open Jocko was. He got emotional during the interview and I definitely felt that.

Thank you for this episode Tim. I seem to learn the most from the guests I have the least in common with. Glenn Beck was a great example of this also (hope you have him on for a round 2).

One of the best episodes in a while. My biggest takeaways were the detaching from situations, and the discipline = freedom thoughts.

Tim, Great interview. Really appreciated your time with Jocko and the insights he shared regarding leadership, humility, and detachment. Because I know you are a learning and self-improvement fanatic, I’d like to offer one tip for you. At 1:21:40, after Jocko spoke of his heroes and was clearly emotional, you paused and then asked: “What do you struggle with?” The question took him out of the emotion of the moment. I wish you had asked instead: “What are you feeling or thinking right now?” Or: “What’s going through your heart right now?” Or: “What does your heart want to say right now?” You get the idea–when a someone (an interviewee, or a friend, perhaps…) goes really deep into their emotions, just stay in the raw emotion of moment and try to help them put words to their deepest feelings at the moment that they are feeling them. That’s where their deepest wisdom lies. And that’s how healing can occur, too.

As a listener, I was completely riveted at that moment with Jocko, feeling completely connected with him and anticipating that he was about to speak some deep truth that maybe he had never said before, not even to himself. Then when you asked a different kind of question–a fine one, but just not appropriate at that moment–I actually said out loud, “Oh Tim, you blew it!” I wanted to hear whatever Jocko might have spoken from his heart at that moment. I’m guessing that I wasn’t alone.

Thanks for who you are and what you do, Tim. I hope you will consider this as a loving criticism meant to add another dimension to your formidable skills as an interviewer and in your pursuit of deeper human insight on behalf of everyone.

Andy

Very cool interview. Completely intense…. Those pauses by Tim after certain questions suggest the high level of intensity and humbleness he felt.

The Lancet reports approximately 600,000 violent deaths as a consequence of the Iraq war, in Iraq alone, between the years 2003 and 2007. (That’s 150,000 per year, on average, during those years).

The Opinion Research survey totalled over 1,000,000 from 2003 to 2007.

By contrast the US Army War Logs report 109,000 deaths in field action reports from 2004 to 2009. Naturally, these don’t account for large numbers of indirectly caused violent deaths, resulting from the chaos that is inevitable in a land where the infrastructure of civilisation has been almost totally destroyed by an invading & occupying force, which is also determined to set the local factions against each other, and changes which side is supported with cash, weapons, and logistical assistance, on a regular basis (by the end of the war having opposed and supported all of them). These are field reports of actual encounters between US Army forces and opponents (i.e. ‘firefights’). It is a serious under-count.

All the various reports agree that the majority of casualties are civilians, with estimates ranging up to 80%.

If you exclude the larger figure as being based on a too loose methodology, and you exclude the lower figure as being woefully inadequate for any number of reasons (self-interest on the part of the criminals who started the war based on lies, a declared policy of not counting bodies, and etc), then it is still conservative to conclude that approximately 100,000 deaths have occurred in Iraq alone, every year since the war began, that would not otherwise have occurred.

That doesn’t count the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, the assaults on Libya, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, and other less publicised provocateur-ing in which the US regular engages as a matter of course. Nor does it assign any responsibility for their ongoing involvement in Syria, in Iran, and other places.

According to the former Defense Secretary Robert M Gates the US has ongoing covert operations in 75 countries, with “war” in an unknown number.

(You should consider that for a moment: not even the people directly responsible for making war can tell you accurately how many wars they are involved in. Yet you want to trust their casualty counts.)

Further, the US has consistently claimed that it’s drone-based attacks have zero civilian casualties. That this is a blatant lie need not be emphasised, but that it casts all similar claims from the same source into significant doubt, must be emphasised. We simply cannot believe anything the US government says, and we dont.

Nor does any of this account for deaths due to the heroin trade, where Afghanistan, under primarily US occupation – accounts for 90% of world supply of a psychoactive substance said by the UN to be responsible for another 100,000 deaths per year.

Taken altogether, the above alone makes the million deaths in the last decade a relatively conservative estimate, very likely a significant under-estimate.

Those policies kill, maim, displace, and impoverish real people, all over the world, every year. Lot’s of them.

Jocko seems like a typical Ugly American dufus.

I listened to a part of the podcast, and then started reading “comments”. First of all, Jocko, thank you for your service. Secondly, I’m amazed at the people who disparage the man for doing a job he was contractually bound to do. Put the politics aside, and recognize he did the job the “chuckle heads” (politicians) asked of him. More than that, the guy stayed alive in a crap show. Celebrate the fact he came back alive, celebrate he honored his commitment, and celebrate the fact he wants to teach others to thrive in the midst of adversity. Get rid of the chuckle heads, but say thank you to a patriot who honored his commitment.

Tim

I love these podcasts, keep em coming!

I just finished the podcast (late I know) and wanted to leave a post here about the phrase Discipline = Freedom, as it has very Jesuit and Aristotelian roots. I try every day to live this mantra with varying levels of success.

However, after reading all the post about the American military industrial complex, the American military, and adventurism by the US government I feel obligated to write a bit more as the conversation is incredibly one sided. First, to those of you who posted about the violence the US government has committed it is a reality and something we cannot escape. War is ugly and sometimes the wrong people die, that does not mean the war itself is wrong or unjust. World Peace is a wonderful goal but the tragedy is that so long as evil lurks just wars will and must be waged. To those of you who posted I recommend you add a few books/manuscripts to your reading list: On Killing by Dave Grossman, Just War Theory by Thomas Aquinas and Augustine, and perhaps for a modern day look at why men go to war The Heart and the Fist by Eric Greitens (who joined the SEAL teams after getting a PhD from Oxford).

Also, remember in-action by the US government has caused millions of unnecessary deaths in this world as well. One only needs to look to Rwanda where an American public cowering from the tragedy in Somalia (Blackhawk Down) refused to take action despite the blatant genocide which was occurring. Also Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge where an American public tired of war after Vietnam also refused to act. These two genocides alone accounted for 2-4 million deaths, a factor of 10 greater than those killed in Iraq.

We are currently watching how in-action by a US government tired of war in Iraq has failed to act in Syria giving rise to Daesh (ISIS by American terms), and created the worst refuge crisis in 30 years. Could US action have fixed the situation? No, but could it have eased the suffering of the Syrian people and prevented the rise of Daesh? Probably. Also remember that American in-action provokes smaller states to action. Early American action could have prevented Russian and Turkish involvement which now will only ensure this conflict does not resolve rapidly as both states have much to lose if the other is victorious.

In closing, I would like to remind people that until the world is freed from evil and malice, warriors who are willing to do violence on behalf of the greater good are required. The day America loses its will or ability to project power and democracy across the globe will see a resurgence of border disputes and certain war between nation states on a much larger scale than we are currently witnessing (China, Japan, and the South China Sea, anyone?). Pax Americana is real and it is saving lives, despite its mess and agenda riddled outward appearance.

Jocko is just a badass,the interview was just awesome. He’s a fascinating Navy Seal/ Ju-Jitsu practitioner. I’m glad he fought for our country, he’s one scary dude to go up against. He’s a very enlightened war fighter and leader, a real warrior and a good person.

Just found your podcast. Great stuff. I bought his book btw. Thanks. Tom

Does anybody know if this exists in written form somewhere?

I loved the book and as a veteran in the corporate world (not as hard core as a SEAL) I use it everyday. The book is easy to read and the authors don’t throw the “I’m a SEAL!” in your face. They are humble respectful and show a great deal of respect for all who serve… even us sappers.

He’s a SEAL. Seals are heroes. Heroes are not scary unless youre a bad guy. Ergo, he is not scary, just damned impressive.

First skill of leadership: humility. I love it. Just finished Extreme Ownership and got a lot out of that too.

Thanks for your service! I’m a high school basketball coach in Colorado taking over a team that has not won a game in 2 years I would love some advice on how to get my team to be mentally tough!!

Tim,

Have you heard of the book “Leadership and Training for the Fight” by MSG Paul R. Howe (Ret.)? In it he talks about a fighter pilot (Col. John Boyd) who is credited as one of the premier military strategic minds of our time and his development of the OODA loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). Additionally, MSG Howe guides the reader through his experience as a SOF leader and law enforcement official and how he trains and equips those under him for their jobs (lots of life and death decision making).

There are other books by DC Gonzalez, Lanny Bassham, and Nicholas Black about mental training that may interest you as well.

Thanks for your time.

-Ben

Holy Shit. This guy reached his pinnacle in the depth’s of hell.

“Leadership is infinitely more about brains than it is about brawn. The brawn stuff is from the movies and it doesn’t work in reality.” – Jocko Willink

I love this quote by Jocko Willink and I find this to ring true with all of the strong and disciplined people I know. I enjoyed listening to this.

I was in ramadi in 06′ at a Seal post. Cool that I was there at the same time. Was also at TQ and LSAA and many other posts and FOBs. Good times believe it or not. Seals are great guys.