“How do you balance the desire to live longer with the desire to perform well?” — Peter Attia, MD
This episode delves into all types of performance enhancement and tracking — optimizing blood testing, drinking “jet fuel,” training for ultra-endurance sports, consuming synthetic ketones, using metabolic chambers, extending longevity by avoiding certain types of exercise, and much more.
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Peter Attia is the co-founder and current president of the Nutritional Science Initiatives (NuSI).
He is an ultra-endurance athlete, compulsive self-experimenter, and one of the most fascinating human beings I know. Peter also earned his M.D. from Stanford University and holds a B.Sc. in mechanical engineering and applied mathematics from Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. He resided at John Hopkins Hospital as a general surgeon, then conducted research at the National Cancer Institute under Dr. Steve Rosenberg, where Peter focused on the role of regulatory T cells in cancer regression and other immune-based therapies for cancer.
UPDATE: People loved this episode so much that we did a follow-up episode, where Peter discussed his supplement use (and what he avoids), the top-5 blood tests you should consider, and much more. Here it is (stream below or right-click here to download):
- Listen to it on Apple Podcasts
- Listen to it on Spotify
- Stream by clicking here.
- Download as MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”
You can find the transcript of this episode here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
This episode is brought to you by Onnit. Joe Rogan introduced me to Onnit, and since then, my garage has resembled a showroom. I own Onnit supplements (like chewable melatonin for jetlag and flights), maces, battle ropes (not “battle robes,” as I first heard it), kettlebells, and enough gear to ensure a lifetime of self-inflicted torture and higher performance.
This podcast is also brought to you by 99Designs, the world’s largest marketplace of graphic designers. Did you know I used 99Designs to rapid prototype the cover for The 4-Hour Body? Here are some of the impressive results.
QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What counter-intuitive physical “hacks” or dietary approaches have been most impactful in your life? Please let me know in the comments.
Scroll below for links and show notes…
Do you enjoy this podcast? If so, please leave a short review here. It keeps me going…
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Selected Links from the Episode
- Learn more about NuSI – The Manhattan Project of Nutrition
- Learn more about the Laura and John Arnold Foundation
- Connect with Peter Attia on Twitter
- Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me) by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
- Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! by Richard Feynman
- 10% Happier by Dan Harris
- Eating Academy – Peter Attia’s Blog
- Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes
- Peter Attia’s obsessions on performance [11:35]
- Is hemoglobin A1C a running 3-month average of your aggregate glucose level? [16:50]
- Managing metabolic syndrome [17:15]
- What are synthetic ketones and why might people care? [19:45]
- Peter Attia’s first experience consuming synthetic ketones [24:55]
- Potential benefits or advantages of consuming synthetic ketones [28:55]
- Exploring the difference between ketoacidosis and ketosis [31:10]
- A mnemonic for the difference between exogenous and endogenous [34:40]
- Interesting results derived from tests with metabolic chambers [35:15]
- Thinking about the health complications related to blood bio-markers [41:45]
- The bio-effects of swimming from Catalina Island to Los Angeles (10 hours later) [51:05]
- Questioning fecal matter transplants [53:45]
- Challenges regarding daily cycles of testosterone and how this effects testing [46:35]
- The sloppy thinking around life extension [58:45]
- Perspectives of death avoidance, IGF-1 and growth hormone use [01:03:00]
- Heart-rate optimization for longevity [1:14:15]
- Exercise recommendations for extending life [1:21:15]
- Addressing challenges with cancer, cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease and neurodegenerative disease [1:44:45]
- Rapid Fire Questions: Meditation, the most enjoyable $100 spent in recent memory, the successful and the punchable [1:31:30]
- Joe Rogan
- John D. Arnold
- Krebs Cycle
- Richard Veech
- Richard Feynman
- Dan Loeb
- John Griffin
- Dennis Calibrese
- Katharine McCormick
The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 900 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.
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131 Replies to “Dr. Peter Attia on Life-Extension, Drinking Jet Fuel, Ultra-Endurance, Human Foie Gras, and More (#50)”
Biggest impact hacks:
1) Book – Allen Carr “Stop Drinking Now”
2) bulletproof coffee in the morning
Both are complete game changers!
Love Allen Carr’s book. Two years sober thanks to it!
I can attest to the effectiveness of Allan Carr’s book. I gave up drinking overnight after reading it a few years ago. It lasted 9 months but I’ve never really been the same (in a good way). I can now have a few drinks and enjoy without the dreadful bingeing I used to indulge in.
Yes Allan Carr helped, but you still need to want to stop.
Speaking of game changers: Book – Allen Carr “The Easy Way to Quit Smoking” , love my bulletproof coffee as well! 🙂
That was fantastic! Please oh please do a part 2 with Dr. Attia – especially on recommended supplements (within different contexts and desires of course), optimizing sleep, and how does probiotics/gut flora/the “microbiome” factor into all of this?
As to hacks, embarrassingly for a regular listener to Tim Ferriss I’ve been ignoring taking care of my health in favour of working on an online business endeavour since summer, so I’m just climbing back on the healthy/optimal lifestyle practices wagon. But 5-10,000 IU per day of vitamin D3 about 5 days out of every week is the only supplement I’m taking since August and *seems* to be keeping me from catching a cold or flu or getting sick in any way *despite* low sleep, ordinary diet, stress, and rare exercise. (Again, I’m changing that as we speak, errr, type.)
Hope some great plans come out of your reflections this December Tim. I for one look forward to the 2015 Ferriss Takeover, lol.
P.S. I’ll just throw this in here: I responded to your email survey before on this, but I’d love if you could get Eben Pagan on the show someday. He teaches so widely I’m not even sure where you’d focus the questions, but interviewing him is sure to be a homerun of an episode…
Bulletproof coffee and, at the time, full fat foods!
1) bulletproof coffee
2) liposomal glutathione
Love it, Love it, LOVE IT!!!
Tim, I have enjoyed the blogposts and podcasts tremendously, and this one is no exception. I really enjoy learning from your circle of friends, regardless of their chosen endeavors.
Keep ’em coming!
This was freakin AWESOME!! Please do a 2nd part.
Killing a cold: 2 tablespoons of honey 2/day, Gargle with Lysterine 3/day and dink 4-5 pints of water a day.
Not to mention regression toward the mean.
Biggest Impact Hacks:
1) Slow-Carb Diet burned (what seemed like visually) a good amount of fat, and while I had a hard time sticking to it for more than a couple months, it’s enabled better choices and changed my perspective on different foods. Will probably get back on it in the near future.
2) Intermittent Fasting – Intermittent fasting between 8 pm and 12 pm the next day, burned 7-10 pounds and was surprisingly easy to keep up with. Seems to have reduced my appetite quite a bit as well after having done it for a month and then stopped.
3) Experimenting with CILTEPP Stack and Opti-Mind supplements. CILTEPP has produced the best results in terms of energy, focus, and cognitive ability… Opti-Mind didn’t seem to last nearly as long and produced some headaches.
All in all, it was an interesting year in terms of body + life experimentation, thanks Tim and all the wonderful guests on your podcast for the inspiration and guidance! Looking forward to new changes in 2015.
Intermittent fasting 3 days a week (16 hours between last meal and first meal) has done wonders for my focus and my strength in workouts.
Some promising research on how it affects immunity and brain health is very interesting.
1) Applying Slow Carb.
2) Working out LESS. I used to work out 5x per week and noticed I wasn’t making any noticeable progress after a couple of month. Pulled back to 3x per week and ended up losing more fat and adding more muscle. Who knew!
I experimented with a few things this year all very successful.
-two meals a day. Nothing after 5pm
-1 month of no sugar, salt, fats caffeine
Tyrone, what kind of improvements did you see. Feel better? Lost weight? perform better? (if you keep track that is)
Did you do all at the same time? And which piece did you have the most trouble with? the intermittent is tough…
High fat, low carb diet in order to lose fat and make strength gains.
Magnesium supplements. Also Ciltep. But the magnesium stopped my chronic bleeding gums for some reason.
No, not strange. Magnesium is a known factor in the outcome of periodontal disease (bleeding gums).
I’ve found that eating carbs many times in the day but in very small quantities makes me feel a lot more energetic and I actually have lost weight. I love rice and that is the most common carb I consume.
How big is a portion of rice (white?) you consume and how many times a day? Do you add fat to rice?
Intermittent fasting. I swear by this. I drink BCAAs and perform at my peak.
Cold shower/sauna after training. Shocks the system!
Intermittent fasting + cold show & sauna have been really beneficial to me lately 🙂
Counterintuitive Dietary Hacks that have helped me are as follows;
-Lower protein consumption, as low as 1g/lb of estimated lean bodyweight
-High Carb intake without focus on GI as long as carbs is consumed in a complete meal with a protein source
-Lower fat contrary to the higher fat protocols followed by Paleo
-comming to the conclusion during contest prep that the most important thing with regards to body composition is the numbers. The type of foods you eat are irrelevant given you’re not allergic. That being said I am a believer in the least processed food being best for overall health and longevity with little play on end body composition.
Two which apply directly to things you have commented on in various forums.
1: ICE BATH and COLD TRAINING.
I started ice baths in September when Tokyo was still warm. Immediate recuperative results. Saved them for post sprint or post squat sessions.
Now it’s December and Tokyo is freezing. The temp plummeted. I have been training very early, abt 0400 or late around 2100 and my performance easily jumped 50% in the two weeks since the temp dropped. Don’t know why.
2: I STOPPED USING INJECT-ABLE TEST
I know the science. I have been involved with this is different forms since 2000. But now, without a doubt I can say when I supplement testosterone my fitness level plummets. It plummets. I get stronger and much more muscular but every time I have cycled my cardio is ravished and it takes twice as long to get it back.
Number two directly contests all the science I have read about an improvement in VO2 max etc.
It would be more accurate to say supplementing any AAS, except Fluoxymesterone, immediately impacts negatively on cardio performance be it LISS, HIIT or mid range work capacity type training. Any ideas about this would be appreciated. At this point I am leaning towards being “done” with it but the effects it has on other things are so positive I wish I could find a balance. I am 36 and the general feeling of well being, the state of old injuries, sexual appetite etc are all so improved it’s a shame I cannot reconcile these with the demands my sports require.
Hack: cold shower every day. It produces an immediate physical change that knocks you into a high level on consciousness and urgency. Helps you realize life is short! Time to get moving!
1) Low-Carb, High fat/Protein diet
The only carbs I eat now are from fruits any veggies. All of the other calories come from healthy fats (extra virgin olive oil, any form of meat). Pretty much fruits & veggies + meat and sometimes a small side of a healthy complex carb like quinoa or brown rice. This diet has done wonders for me by clearing up my mind fog, detoxing my body (digestion has cleared up a ton), and providing me with more energy while not having to eat as much. I’ve been putting on only lean muscle and haven’t seen any traces of fat. At first I lost a lot of water weight, but now I look toned and the muscle is still packing on.
2) 5X5 Training. See here: http://stronglifts.com/
At first I started with the stronglifts program. As I became more experienced (6+ months), I began to modify it into something that worked for me. It’s true, it’s only 45 minutes in the gym (can even be less), and it gives RESULTS. I’ve seen major improvements in cardio and especially muscle mass. I started out squatting around 145 and I’ve maxed out at 315 from sticking to the plan for a year. My deadlift went from 225 to 410. Just stay committed to it. I think it’s the easiest to follow workout plan. The only downside is you need access to a barbell with weights.
Ive reversed diabetes symptoms and eliminated 60lbs using a low/no carb diet, higher fat (the good ones) and moderate exercise.
People love to hate it, but nothing has made a bigger difference in my health than eating more sugar, in all forms. Especially when combined with eating less fat.
This is the most impressive thing I’ve experienced nutritionally in the last 10+ years. Truly worth a look:
Excited about your project Tim!
1) Intermittent fasting….I do Yerba Mate in the morning (8 or 9a) and slug water will about 3p when I have my first meal. Excellent for sustainable energy levels.
2) Vitamin B12…I take a supplement (50,000% DV) 30 minutes before workouts (suddenly my jumping jacks are really easy!)
3) Hemp Protein…I used to do whey but the dairy and the lack of fiber messed me up! Now I have no dairy and plenty of fiber 🙂
Keep the cool stuff comin!
1. Biggest fix of all was flax seed oil before bed. After literally a decade (ages 13-23) of inconsistent rhythms and poor sleep ( school is hard enough without being tired and grumpy all the time). The flaxseed oil before bed has literally transformed my sleep and my life. I have since found that the concentrate capsules that are sold in supermarkets are just as effective as drinking it out of a shot glass
2. 2nd Biggest fix of all was the pre-hab chapter and the reversing “permanent” injuries those 2 go together because I was able to fix a bulging disc in my neck. After week of physio did little to help the pain. These to help relive the pain in my neck and stop it from coming back
2. Barry Ross’s strength training. That along with Dave Camarillo’s “submit everyone” I’ve become the top whitebelt at my gym and have been nominee for a most improved student award.
3. Occams protocol. Went from a slender 65 kg to a nice 80 kg .
Developing/customizing the most efficient nutritional template for ME —> and learning to trust it/ myself..
Diet Hack: Smaller portions but better quality. Better quality meals leave you more satisfied and much much less incline to overeat. Think european portions. There’s a reason why Zara’s clothing does not fit most Americans.
Through slow carb diet, obviously you can eat more but I love bananas, cheese and chocolate way too much to only eat it once a week. Sorry Tim!!! I have a lot of respect though for followers of the slow carb diet.
Dear Tim and Peter,
Our lab studies microRNAs and one student is investigating the role of microRNA-33 in onset of NASH. We are testing in vivo a new gene silencing platform technology to reduce triglyceride levels. These are therapeutic approaches, but it is critical to discover preventative measures, so it is great to learn about the NuSI mission! I hope it reveals a correlation between HFCS and onset of NASH or infant NASH (HFCS is an infant formula component). Best of luck on the mission!
My hacks: binaural recordings to meditate produced great results on my sleep cycle from only 20 mins 4-5 times per week. I do a hybrid of 4HB slow carb diet and juicing (fresh vegetable juice with GOLIVE probiotics and beetroot, to boost VO2 kinetics). Supplements: B2,12 and 9; D3 (8000UI), CoQ, selenium, caprylic acid (MCT), silibinin (for preventing oxidative stress, lipotoxicity and
inflammation) and marine greens.
Thank you for the podcast!
Using the SleepCycle app to track the effects of a handful of sleep aids on sleep quality. Over the last 30-45 days, I’ve found that an Mg supplement (Natural Calm) has been less effective in promoting sleep quality than a 20-30 minute nap in the afternoon. While many have suggested Mg as a pre-bedtime supplement, it has not shown itself as effective for me. Starting to chase naps rather than a $20 bottle of Natural Calm has definitely been more counter-intuitive for me.
Bulletproof coffee, Tabata, cupping and moxabustion (feel incredible the next day), and nootropics.
Intermittent Fasting. Last meal at 2000 next meal after noon next day
Stopped eating animal products. Go high carb low fat vegan.
Ginkgo biloba and Siberian rhodiola rosea (3% rosavins 1% salidrosides).
Eat Stop Eat, Brad Pilon
John Kiefer’s work has been huge for me, especially carb backloading
Peter has mentioned that he has written somewhere about his thoughts on endurance sports, but I can’t find it on eatingacademy. Does anyone have a link?
(Would be very interesting due to the fact that he is an avid endurance athlete, but does not necessarily think that it is healthy or makes any sense at all).
This was awesome! Peter Attia is very good at explaining difficult things. So much good information in this podcast. Part 2 please!
1) Slow carb diet
2) Air Squats, 30 minutes after meals
Tim, any discussion of athletic longevity MUST include Kelly Slater, IMO the greatest athlete of all time. At forty-two, he is still arguably the best surfer in the world, and more importantly, he is still pushing the limits in both huge surf and new-school maneuvers. Watch this to see what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d_E1Xx4_Ko. He is known for an exceptionally rigorous diet, as well as adhering to virtually no physical fitness regimen, other than surfing when the waves are amazing. In other words, he does no regular training. Please study him and let us know: is he a genetic anomaly, or is there a way for the average Joe to have similar performance longevity?
Nutritional ketosis -> I can now run sub-3 hour marathons w/zero calories in-race.
Tim asked a good question about what sub-threshold level is potentially harmful or what % max heart rate is safe. ie my max heart rate is 190. My lactate threshold is 170. A brisk walk is 100. An easy jog is 120. What heart rate zone is worth avoiding?
Hiya! Can you explain briefly your protocol for staying in nutritional Ketosis and your ketone measuring tool(s)? Thanks!
Seth Roberts and The Shangri-La Diet – which you hinted at once.
Um–do you mean HUMAN foie gras, as in made from a human’s liver or HUMANE as in created in a gentle way from a goose or other animal and using an animal’s liver?
I’m a big fan of you Tim but to be honest I haven’t been very impressed with the last two podcasts. Neither guest provided much useful information. I’m not sure what they point of the synthetic ketone story was except that they are expensive and taste bad.
I have to echo what Zach just said. honestly its the most useless 2 hours i spent listening to a podcast. not sure what the takeaway is from this podcast. it just seemed like a rant for over 2 hours and no concrete message. seemed like not topic was really expanded or discussed to a degree that made sense and a message can be taken away. i left the podcast feeling very underwhelmed.
Question for you all…
In the beginning of the episode where Tim asks Peter about his boring and repetitive breakfast, does anyone know if there’s another podcast (or resource) where he goes into detail about the question, specifically, about eating “nothing, more nothing, etc.”?
I wondered if that audio clip was from another podcast but couldn’t find anything.
Thanks for the help!
Intermittent fasting. Not just from food – from everything. Our society is OBSESSED with finding a weird pill or extract or bit of technology that will fix or supercharge our life. But this mentality is exactly what causes the problem. When I just cut stuff off – the internet, food, whatever, for 16 hours, I feel AMAZINGLY fresh and creative, and I don’t need any wack widgets to distract myself.
Raw milk, raw butter, fermented cod liver oil, coconut oil, grass fed tallow. In a word: fat.
I’ve never been thinner.
-Purium 10 day cleanse (Apple-berry) once a month.
– shorter workouts; 25 min. Cardio, 30 min. Resistant training 3-4 times per week
– a spoonful of organic coconut oil every single morning
– H2O all day (half my body weight in ounces or more)
– gluten free as much as possible
This was a great episode. I’d definitely like to see a second one with Dr. Attia.
My most counter-intuitive hack physical hack is to get up early, especially when I’m feeling tired. If I don’t get to bed until later than usual, I’m always tempted to stay in bed until the last possible second before I leave for work. This leaves me out of whack for the rest of the day. If I get up early, do my normal routine, and even add something like a stop at a cool coffee shop or a full eggs and bacon breakfast, I end up feeling much, much better throughout the day.
Also, given you and Dr. Attia’s discussion about the significant changes in blood composition based on the time of the withdrawal, it seems to me that a product like WellnessFX, which has always fascinated me, might not be as useful as a similar product that allows for multiple blood samples. Aside from using my PCP, are you aware of any companies offering such a thing?
As always, thanks for the great content.
Tim, you mentioned getting on the floor and doing some exercises that helped with hip and knee alignment. I have some of the same issues having worked now for 15 years largely at a corporate desk and in meetings. Can you share details on those exercises?
Every once in a while I get a pinched nerve or massive back pain ( I’m early 50s) and the only thing that relieves the pain is drinking a bottle of wine. I try stretching, massage, ibuprofen, and hot/cold, but drinking wine seems to relax the muscles and unpinch the nerve. This may or may not seem counter-intuitive but it works!
Hi Guys – Great episode. Absolutely loving the Podcasts here in Europe, great work, bravo!
39 years old, have hacked my entire life, played sport since I could walk, now competing in Ironman and cycling events, stage races etc. I’ve tried every supplement, diet you can imagine, and nothing works better for me than this:
Springtime, after a few longer training sessions (good base in the system), do a juice fast. 7-9 days including transitions. Continue to train at comfortable speeds (65%), bike, swim, run, sauna. Drink tons of juice, vegetable works best for me. Obviously be very careful with your food on the way back in, and train on Bananas, green tea and honey. I then use a mix of honey and indian herbs that I have created over the past 4 years. It’s Honey, Ashwaganda, Amalaki, Curcuma, black pepper and about 35 other herbs. I use this, a huge tablespoon in the morning and the evening and even on long rides.
Guys, the benefits of this program are mind – boggling. I feel light as a feather, without having lost any power. I feel as if i’m satiated deeply on a cellular level, and able to dig very deep without bringing my heart rate up too high. (if you’ve ever fasted you probably have witnessed how quickly your heart rate recovers). The combination of the herbs is very methodical for best transport and enhanced bioavailability, basically supercharging all the other herbs. The recovery time is very quick (if one can manage to sleep 8 hours and not drink too much wine).
Again, I’ve tried everything, and this works best for me. It’s super simple and basic. A few other cornerstones of this system are:
Green Tea / Yerba Mate
Fresh filtered water
All for now. Keep up the great work.
This may be the most interesting and useful podcast episode I have listened to all year… And I listen to a lot of podcasts, probably several thousand episodes per year.
I am very interested in hearing more from Peter Attia.
Any chance you could bring him back for another podcast? Thanks for a great podcast Tim.
This has my vote for the best podcast of 2014.
Why does Dave Aspray’s troll army show up in every comment section.
I loved this podcast. If there was any way to hear more about Peter and his brothers thinking on how to be a top performer at work and as a parent, that would be awesome. Even seeing some of the books and resources they are drawing from to refine their thinking. I’ve been looking, and it’s hard to find the intersection of both.
Tim and Peter, keep up all of the amazing work!
I loved this podcast and loved the discussion of how to find success as a parent and in business. I’m a mother of 3 and own my own business. I try to learn all I can from these podcasts mainly for my primary role as mother and family manager. I often feel I could manage anything after raising these 3 kids and keeping my husband running efficiently!!! Thank you for all the great info!
Vitamixing the top most nutrient dense veggies into a shake each morning. (kale, baby bokchoy, brocorri)
Hi Tim, Peter, to help support your initiative I made a small donation via PayPal (there was no place to put NAFLD — Tim Ferriss” in the payment system) The money I sent is the first money I just earned from the sale of an ebook I wrote about being Street Smart that has a sweet section to enhance child safety. I don’t have so much money to give right now but I am delighted to help out because I do believe a key to lifestyle enhancement for our children is a change in diet. Keep up the great work, David
Worth noting I was thrilled to see I just got a personal email from Lacey over at NUSI after I made my donation, very nice indeed.
I love this podcast. Great material – very inspiring. This weeks with Attia has been my favourite. I think a part 2 exploring what Peter referred to as the “pillars of longevity” would be amazing.
Suggestions for other guests….. Mark Bell is featured in 4HB. He’d be an interesting guy.
You mentioned that you’ve been trying to get Arnold Schwarzenegger for some time. The current My Olympia, Phil Heath would be a good guest – very articulate, great competitor, and possibly a door opener for Arnold.
I really enjoy the podcast, books and blogs. Keep up the brilliant work.
All the best,
http://onnit.com/tim doesn’t seem to have anything in it.
The best podcast so far!
In regards to the blood draws after an intense exercise session, do you think that’s an indicator to the importance of exercise? To clarify, the importance of exercising our immune system. It would seem, that the more we exercise, we are building our bodies immune response to a deficient body system.
What do you all think? Is there already a science for theory to this?
I think that the alternative to no exercise is a sedentary lifestyle, which leads to either becoming overweight or chronically weak. Both are sure to contribute to a shortened lifespan. Common sense certainly supports that exercise is good for the health. My knowledge of high-school biology and some college chemistry agrees as well. If I recall correctly, exercise increases the number of mitochondria in body cells, which improves the immune system. Intense exercise also opens the lymph nodes which encourages detoxification.
Regarding the other part of your question, I have to say I am not quite sure what you are asking. What do you mean by exercising the immune system?
Thanks! Yes, to me it seems that when you exercise your body you are also exercising your immune system.
Awesome podcast. After reading Volek and Phinney’s books on nutritional ketosis and reading just about every article I can find on the subject I keep coming up with a few questions. First, is a cyclic ketogenic diet really capable of indefinitely putting a person into that .5 mm- 3mm range of nutritional ketosis that is associated with the myriad of health benefits? Is CKD really a ketogenic diet at all, considering that the long-term fat adaptation is constantly interrupted vis-a-vis carb refeeds? My second question is related to a possible issue that seems to be of little interest to the nutritional ketosis researchers: do ketogenic diets worsen existing fungal infections? Paul Jaminet and Chris Kresser argue that while ketogenic diets do wonders for bacterial infections they actually worsen fungal infections, because these organisms can actually feast on ketone bodies as easily as we can. I wonder if Dr. Attia has any insights into this. I also wonder how nutritional ketosis affects methylation.
Unable to find “Aging manifesto”, any luck on your side?
I too would really like a change to read the “Longevity vs Performance Manifesto” mentioned multiple times in this podcast.
Over the last 6 months I have become a regular listener and reader of your output, I use many of your results to improve myself. Many of the business processes you mention I discuss with like minded people. Automation of processes is really coming through to many companies and seems to be the real reason for the paradigm shift of software defined datacentre and maybe even cloud.
I believe the next step in automation is the delivery of automated processes – automatically.
I work very closely with a new company who are doing exactly that. Setting up Automation and improved processes can take many months to complete (sometimes with great risk in getting the processes wrong). They have designed an automation process of ICT delivery, which enables company’s who want to automate their processes can start almost immediately (as theirs no actual value in the delivery, it’s the output which is desired). In a nutshell they have developed Automation processes to deploy automation processed, and are the only company worldwide who are doing this (delivering the Microsoft System Center stack automatically).
They’re doing great, Enterprise orders taken, healthy pipeline, positive cashflow etc. with a team of 4 people.
I’m reaching out as there is possibly a window of about 18 months – 24 months before this may become commoditized, I wonder if you have any recommendation or advice on the quickest way to scale out at this stage.
Sorry if this appears to be spam – but your website said to contact you via the latest blog – which is this.
Tim, Heartbreaking experience with Quarterly.Co. I ordered your $5K megabox only to find out that their “system automatically cancelled (my) order” without notification and all I got back was “sorry for the misunderstanding”. Spouses Christmas now ruined. Such a disappointment.
Tim, I literally was able to use information from this podcast at a party last night. A girl there works in rare brain disorders, particularly with Glut-1, the glucose that crosses the blood-brain barrier. Dr. Attia’s talk about ketosis and how it works with the brain allowed me to both explain the other people listening what she was talking about and impress the hell out of a new acquaintance. Thank you,
Also: the audio for this podcast was much better than that of recent shows. What was the hardware?
– Feed window between 12 midday – 6pm
– Fast rest of the time
– Weights once per week
– Clean & Jerk
– 2 Push
– 2 Pull
– Cycle everywhere I don’t need to drive.
Worked a charm up until this last month where meetings and out-of-routine activities (I’m looking at you, Christmas) have ruined my intentions. Back on the horse soon!
PLEASE do a part 2! This was my favorite episode. I’d love to hear more about what/how Peter tests himself (blood and otherwise). Also, more about when is appropriate for some of the more highly scrutinized supplements (hgh, anabolic steriods, etc). What a great point that an 80 year old should probably be taking hgh because mortality biggest risk is breaking a hip and not getting cancer
Can you make this something that is done on a regular basis? I’d pay for it, seriously. Do an interview with Peter every quarter and add it to your quarterly subscription or something.
Tim, I just wanted to reply the portion of the show about meditation. I am in agreement with Dr. Attia that the best strategy with meditation is to do what works. That said, I teach mindfulness-meditation and there are essential attitudes, which if cultivated, have the capacity to shift beliefs. For instance, many people initially think “I am not doing this right” because “my mind is all over the place.” If we can let go of “doing it right” and have the intention to be “non-striving,” it may change our experience. If we let go of trying to make something special happen or trying to create a particular state, this can reduce performance anxiety. If you have a thought, just notice the thought and bring your awareness back to the breath (or object of choice) again and again. Another key that is often overlooked is to allow your awareness to take on qualities of that are friendly and kind. Our brains are wired to judge our experiences, so being friendly during meditation takes practice. With enough practice, we can rewire parts of our brain. There are scientific journals that show structural changes in the brain with as little as 8 weeks of meditation and can be found at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092549271000288X.
When meditating, I experience less “chatter” or busyness when I first do 15 to 20 minutes of yoga. Thank you for providing such awesome content and please do a part II with Dr. Attia.
re donating appreciated stock, the easiest way to do this is to open a donor-advised fund (DAF) account at Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity or wherever you have your main brokerage account and then effortlessly transfer appreciated stock to the DAF account and take the full value deduction the same year then advise the DAF to make the contribution to Nusi or whatever charity you want whenever you feel like it. It is easy and tax efficient donation.
Great Episode. As a passionate nutritionist and health coach I was so excited to listen to the episode. I was familiar with Dr. Peter Attia work before and his work with Gary Taubes especially. I love that they are looking for answers whet it comes to nutrition instead of being set in their ways preaching some theory. I’ve exposed myself, researched and tried many diets and nutrition theories and was still looking for that perfect theory I guess that would explain what’s the best nutrition for humans and how nutrition works. And then I read “whole: rethinking the science of nutrition” by Dr. Campbell and it got me thinking. In the book he talks a lot about reductionism and wholistic(the spelling is important to stress the true meaning of the word) approach in nutrition science (and in the whole world in general) how we try to research different parts of the equation(nutrients, vitamins etc.) and apply the results to the whole system (our body) not really having full understanding yet how that whole system functions. We research different nutrients, enzymes, substances etc. observing how they change the whole system not really being sure why exactly it happens this way and then we build theories based on those results and expecting to see the same results pretty much in our wholistic world that can not be compared to the lab.
It’s like in that tale about blind men who touch different parts of the elephant and then describe what the whole elephant is, based on their limited exposure to the phenomenon.
Another thought: we can find proofs that different dietary theory works, there is not one that works but many of them. And we are still trying to find that perfect one. What if there is none? What if the way our body metabolizes nutrition doesn’t really depend on the nutrients and lifestyle factors as much as it depends on the programming in our minds?
What if we crave certain foods, absorb the nutrients from our foods(that can be so different too for individuals), function better on a particular diet, what if all that depends on the kind of software our minds have?
If we look at the whole picture in nutrition and health movement I think we can find more evidence confirming that conclusion than any other.
Happy 50th episode
Tim, I was a little hesitant to start due to the length. How wrong! I enjoy all your podcasts but this one was outstanding. It was like sitting in on a conversation and the time few by. Thanks for what you do.
Absolutely, love Tim’s podcast. It’s helped me improve in many facets of my life, and has helped me improve performance plus time oriented skills. I take notes, and do research whenever possible. Thanks Tim for taking the time by bequeathing your knowledge, skills and abilities. You rock my man!
Loved the discussion but have to mention one point- This is one of those things where I seem like the crazy guy, but one day what I am saying will be the common view. Dr. Attia referenced on several occasions research involving “animal models”, and he specifically mentioned two nutritional studies using rhesus monkeys, but said they can’t truly be compared because the two studies used “different strains” of the rhesus monkeys.
From a scientific point of view, a “model” is only useful if it has a known predictable relationship to the thing it is modeling. For example I can’t call a toaster a model of an F-15 and test its aerodynamics to see how an F-15 will fly. I can build a scaled down model of an F-15 that has a predictable relationship to the real thing and test that. By definition, each species of animals, including us, reacts to drugs and diet differently. You can’t test something on a monkey and assume you will learn something about humans, you might or might not. A monkey is not a “model” for a human. It is a different species with different DNA, etc. Something might not work in a monkey that would work just fine in a human. You will only know once you see it tested in humans (epidemiologically, clinically, computer models, etc.).
And on some level, Dr. Attia knows the concept, which is why he correctly said we could not compare data between two strains of rhesus monkeys. But if we can’t assume what applies to one strain of rhesus monkey applies to another, why would we assume that either applies to humans? And to which humans? European Adults? Pacific Island women? If we want to know things about humans, we need to work with humans. Wasting time and money on animals not only gives us info that ends up being not true for humans (hence all the drugs that look great in animals but never make it through human clinical trials), but often can miss the crucial info that would be true for humans but did not look promising in the “animal model”.
Thanks for the otherwise great info.
Well said and very important!
really enjoyable podcast, but I usually find all of your podcast great. I am a bit of meat head so I enjoy when you have people on talking about health. I found the Dr. very real.
Picking up on your Dec. 11 post, what would John McPhee say about your sentence in this Dec. 18 post:
PLEASE: Join Peter and I [sic] (I’m matching up to $50,000) in supporting this high-leverage project, ideally before the end of December.
However, given the volume of your written output, an occasional error is proof that you’re human!
Tim thanks for your site and your podcasts – great stuff – I’m reading grain brain and some of your posts and material etc … I’ve read enough to convince me to make changes in my lifestyle…. Discussion re keystones etc is interesting but a bit esetoric for me… Can you point me to a basic 101 diet or programme I could start today. Thanks again – Andrew
My biggest hack of the year is active recovery. I’ve injured my rotator cuff at the start of the year and instead of using the commonly accepted RICE protocol I went the other way and pushed active recovery to the max. I dropped the intensity of shoulder-heavy exercises by 50%, added loads of weighted mobility and in a week I was able to get back to 100%. Maybe it was a minor injury and it would’ve healed just as quickly if I did nothing but there are multiple of studies being done right now that retest fundamental assumptions in injury rehab. Also, Ido Portal uploaded this video several weeks ago that goes against everything we know in recovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhD0VBHXQVQ.
From high school through graduate school, I fasted for finals week. I felt it gave me greater focus, and I only required 3-4 hours of sleep per night. Perfect for a chronic procrastinator. The discussion of ketosis makes that whole experience make sense.
Thanks for the talk guys, I really enjoyed this.
I have some questions concerning vo2 max. Intro and explanation first, questions at the bottom.
I’ve always considered vo2 max to be an important physical attribute of accomplished mountaineers, particularly those doing high-altitude summits without oxygen. However, this is relatively un-spoken topic in the mountaineer and altitude communities, more found (if at all) in discussions about the bio-metrics of hardcore trail runners.
As I have several major summits coming up in the next few years, I got curious about this as a quick look at my own vo2 max was not very inspiring. 44 or so depending on the sport I’m training for. Fairly low considering the training I have done actually. So out of curiosity I did the math on expected vo2 performance at altitudes such as Everest etc.
Assuming your vo2 max drops at a rate of 1% every 100m after 1500m (rough estimate repeated a few times by sadly seemingly non-specialists…) to stay at an operational vo2 on top of everest you would need sea level vo2 of about over 100, say 110 to be “safe”… which is pretty crazy, but also more than twice my current vo2 max!
Now I’m not about to do everest, but I tend to stay away from talks of oxygen supplementation whenever possible, particularly looking at peaks under 6km, which would still require an insane increase in vo2 max to safely summit.
So lets say the math is mostly right as people without oxygen on top of everest wouldn’t last more than about 2.2 hours anyway without being super human…. My question is really three fold.
Do you think this is an important metric to factor into training for hard core summits?
How does one train specifically vo2 max increase (safely if possible)?
And would that predictably do as much, more or less as just going up and down high-altitude summits all the time (which for those of us who live split personality adventure/work lives is pretty tough)?
Let the fact pulling and assumptions begin?
Thanks for your time.
I enjoyed this episode greatly. I’ve listened to this at least twice already and the guest’s message, particularly regarding middle-aged parent health goals, resonated with me. Looking forward to more content like this!
This is very important post
Love your interviews and the guests are always fascinating. And while there was a ton of incredible info shared in this interview, (and Dr Attia was fascinating) I feel like you never quite got us there. I kept wanting to hear some actionable items on diet, exercise, and/or supplements that the every day joe like me could use, but every time I thought we were there the conversation took a turn. It was like a blue balls interview! lol Not hatin’… just sayin’
I’m big admirer of your books, deconstructive approach life and frequently recommend your books to others. While you’ve got a lot to say I often wish you’d edit your questions to give your guest more time to reply. Shorten the questions up, digress less and your podcast would be even better. Maybe you could add your observations as an audio addendum to the podcast.
You deserve all the credit for curating this great resource. I only want to support your growth as an interviewer.
Keep up the great work.
What I hear from this discussion, and a previous video of Peter’s, about ketones makes me think about the simplest metabolic process that is oxidation. Most diseases and virus are progressed by oxidative stress. Tim mentioned taking Glutathione via IV.(Note it can’t be absorbed through cells walls. ) The Glutathione handles all those 10s of thousands of DNA hits if sufficient precursors is available in cell. The albumin is the best source of glutamiccysteine precursors. Immunocal from the Immunotec company is best source for the albumin extracted from cows milk.
As for the best thing done for less than $100 is definitely a pedicab ride, bicycle taxi. Everyday I used to ride in New York city I would have people tell me it was the funniest thing the had done in all of NYC. My pickup line was, “It is the only street legal roller-coaster ride.”
I really hate podcasts, is it really that difficult to pay someone to write it out?
Hi Dr Attia!
I must confess I’m a great fan of yours, read lots of your blog spots, even trying to delve into those more scientific ones like the series about cholesterol, although my field of activity doesn’t have the least in common with medicine/biology. I’m more of a technical guy.
About what I’d like to hear in part two is somehow related to this whole insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, high carb diet. Hasn’t it occurred to you, that this high carb lifestyle and the resulting symptoms are somehow also related to male pattern baldness aka AGA? I mean, the correlation is obvious. AGA wasn’t so widespread couple of decades ago, especially not in those industrially very poorly developed countries, like china. And as they’re catching up with industrialization, the ‘disease’ spreads, the number of folks hit by AGA proportionally to the whole male population is now almost as bad as in the USA or Europe.
And even taking just the developed countries, the statistics about AGA is getting worse and worse year after year, very clearly correlating with statistical data on metabolic syndrome/type II diabetes and insulin resistance.
As I know the exact mechanism of AGA is not clearly understood even in these days, there are just theories and assumptions about it.
Couldn’t this somehow be connected to the way our bodies respond to processing sugar? Let’s say, on a fictive experiment with twins, genetically very predetermined to AGA, having the same lifestyle conditions except nutrition, could that be, that the one eating much more simple sugars will start to bald much sooner and will reach to a fully developed AGA at a much younger age than his brother who’s on very low carb diet his entire life?
I’d be very excited to hear your thoughs on this, if there are any.
I’ve watched Dr. Attia’s TED talk before but I had to look him up again to see if it was the same person. I also loved his book recommendations.
This was an amazing interview Tim!
Absolutely amazing. I could listen to this for 10 hours. Totally do a 2nd part with supplements and sleep, more on stress reduction and nutrition. Great podcast.
Before the end of min 28 Tim asked you what the benefits are that can be gained from synthetic ketones. You talked about Veech and then, unfortunately, Tim shortly before min 31 asks a follow up question. This resulted in you not completing your thought about benefits. Can you please write what you had in mind to say? Personally, I’d be interested in (ultra trail) runners, in case there’s a difference in benefits between runners, swimmers,… I guess this is what you referred to in the podcast title when you wrote “on Ultra Endurance” but I think it never was mentioned again in the remaining podcast…
Would you be so kind to elaborate on that, as much as your our time allows for it? 🙂
Thanks and best regards from Greece
Love the follow up podcast. Can you suggest how I can find a doctor in the San Francisco area that shares this mindset and can do the appropriate testing?
I’m very new having found you today via dr Attia’s Ted talk. This is extremely interesting and somewhat mind boggling. I’m a neurosurgeon but I agree with everything you say.
I’m also a wellness freak. I’m 73 years old but look and act about 15 years younger. I adhere to a wonderfully delightful lifestyle without too much neurotic behavior.
I do adhere fairly strictly to non factory food, organic, real food, and work out with weights and HIIT, 4-5 day, meditate 20 minutes 4-5 times week, and consume all the supplements my tells me to do. I also drink about 6 liters of clean water per day.
My main question is how concerned are you about the GMO, antibiotics, added hormones, feminizing plastics, pesticides, toxic chemicals in our environment?
Please have Peter Attia on regularly. I’ve been binging on his stuff. Such great information, and he comes across as humble, which is refreshing. And he’s hot. So really, video would be even better.
Atlas Profilax. It permanently changed me as a human being forever. Just takes 5mins, once, and thats it. You receive a free follow up a month later but thats inconsequential.
I have no investement in sharing this(and theres no way someone could anyway), but it really is amazing. The physical installation of the C1 vertabrae which they’ve discovered is luxated in 99% of people. Interestingly always to the same side and axis-they dont know why. This mal position enormously compresses the nerves, blood,cranio sacral fluid etc that pass from the brain to rest of the body. People report all manner of injury and illness including emotional, resolve immediately, as the body can finally get on with the task of taking care of issues it didnt have the spare resources to attend to before. Communication between brain + everything else is rapidly enhanced once the intense compression at the C1 is resolved. For me it was not physical as much as a massive surge in consciousness and inner wholeness-but i didnt have any real physical stuff going on at the time. The website has a very clear articulate 7min video showing the physiology and whats wrong and how it corrects it. It’s available all over the world. Chiropractors have spread a bit of hate saying its nonsense, cos it fairly efficiently puts them out of a job, so do suspend disbelief if you come across a bit of naysaying. Theres nothing palliative about it , thats what i love. Its a one off hardware upgrade thats permanent. I cant think of anything else that I can confidently say everyone would benefit from. I had it done 10yrs ago and I still get excited about it. Everyone i told about who had the Atlas Profilax procedure was so overwhelmingly grateful to me. ( hope you read this Timmy 🙂
No one mentioned meditation as changing their life! It was great to hear Tim and Pete discuss meditation in detail and their experience and challenges ,unsure if thats been done in other podcasts to same extent.
Salient point: Peter, master maestro researcher only acknowledged two styles of meditation + a brand (TM) (which is a packaging of a technique not the name of a method itself.)Is that it? To add to the conversation & share knowledge I offer the following resource.
Discourses by Meher Baba
6th Edition, Volume 2, page 111 (there are 8 parts on meditation from there)
Scroll down to the 5th entry
‘Discourses 6th Edition’ and choose volume 2.
It’s all a free PDF download, being public domain.
It explains a depth AND breadth of meditation: how, what , why, where : light years beyond what Peter hinted at. I challenge anyone to offer or source a more comprehensive,articulate,inspiring internalised explaination that is so practical , coherent, authoritative, and will be equally accesible to the hard core science rationalist or the heart swooning new ager. Disclaimer: I’m an atheist and not involved with the authors work or context in any way. I just note the author never inserts themselves into the context, theres no dogma or religion,it’s designed to reach students of meditation universally, it’s offering an extremely sophisticated yet lucid perspective a western academic could never hope to attain on the subject.
PS Don’t bother with Edition 7 its a posthumous tinkered-with version. Edition.6 is last one actually by the author.
Thanks for the great podcast.
My comment mostly echoes Jude Johnson’s comment regarding meditation, but I also had a recommendation I wanted to pass on. Several months ago I took a two-month long MBSR (Mindfulness-based stress reduction) course here in San Francisco, and it was a fantastic experience. I’m not a particularly stressed-out person, but two friends took different MBSR courses (both in the Bay Area), and both said it changed their lives. One of the things I thought was central to the course was that the teacher kept reminding us that our minds will wander, it is natural, and expected. Being able to acknowledged that wandering, and compassionately bringing your mind back to the focus of attention was “the practice.”
I would assume that all MBSR classes that follow the teachings of Jon Kabat-Zinn would be similar as he developed the course. If you, or anyone, is interested in the particular course I took in San Francisco ping me [Moderator: Twitter username removed]. and let me know. It is here in San Francisco, and the whole 8-week course is very affordable. I am not affiliated with the teachers in anyway, other than I took their class and enjoyed it. The only reason I am not posting the class info here is because I am not sure the teachers would want all the attention posting here might get.
Phenominal show dude! Had no idea about Peter Attia prior to this, BUT quickly scoured/’stalked’ him all across the internet & Ted talks & his website; awesome information; as of Jan 1st 2016 I Switched to a IF Keto diet (along w’ 4 hr body kettlebells & Occam’s Gym work) & have been noticing results, already smashing through several weight loss plateaus, but of course GOTTA have that 1 CHEAT DAY ala 4hr body! When you live in Austin TX, you can only go without Tacos for so long! Thanks Tim!
Hey Tim, after listening to Dr. Peter Attia and Dominic D’agostino interviews I experimented with the ketogenic diet for 2 – 3 days and I felt great! I have no problems with diabetes but both my parents have it so I’m worried I will get it if I don’t watch what I eat.
It seems people pick a side and defend it unconditionally as if it’s a personel attack if someone questions the science. I find it true for the Taubes/No-Carbers as well as those on the No-Fat aisle. There’s a few exceptions to this (Stephan Guyenet, Monica Reinagel, James Kreiger, Carbsane), but they’re often overlooked in favor of something more sensational. Here’s a good example on a critical analysis of Dr. David Ludwig’s carbohydrate-insulin obesity hypothesis: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2016/01/testing-insulin-model-response-to-dr.html
Can Tim recommend a functional/age management MD in the Bay Area?